warick hearn Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 well its mt first try at using natural salt water today for my water changes.....collected the water yesterday and tested it.... everything was fine except the salinity which is 0.027 at 25 degrees...so just adding some fresh water before adding to my tank. I had the water heating over night and pumping it through an eheim power filter...so its looking pretty good now......here goes...... Warick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 It will be fine! Are you using RO/DI for the fresh water or straight from the tap? The NSW should preferably be left to sit for 3 weeks or more before adding it to kill bacteria and parasites, (If any). I run mine through Carbon twice before hitting the tank also to remove organics. Even if you havent done this you will be ok this time more than likely....just something to think about! Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 The NSW should preferably be left to sit for 3 weeks or more before adding it to kill bacteria and parasites, (If any). How would that kill bacteria and parasites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Any theronts floating around will have no fish hosts to attach to. Bacteria dies if there is nothing to feed on. I thought this would be obvious to you Layton. (Im not talking about complete removal, just the majority). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Any theronts floating around will have no fish hosts to attach to. Depends on the life cycle and type of parasite. Bacteria dies if there is nothing to feed on. What makes you think there is nothing for the bacteria to feed on? Isn't one of the supposed benifits of using NSW (apart from the cost), that it is full of "life" which you don't get with ASW? Also a lot of bacteria don't die immediately when there is nothing to feed on. They can go into a dormant state (spore like state), and stay that way for many months, then spring to life based on environmental triggers. Really to kill bacteria and parasites effectively, you have to nuke them. They don't kill themselves very easily, or quickly. I thought this would be obvious to you Layton. (Im not talking about complete removal, just the majority). It's not obvious at all, and seems kind of a strange statement. Just because you leave the water sitting there, the bacteria dies off? I would actually think the opposite, you'd get an increase in bacteria, as the zoo-plankton in the water dies. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 The bacteria that consumes the dying Plankton will be good bacteria. Im talking about possible bad bacterias that may be present. Parasite life cycles are usually over with within 3 weeks. (I DID NOT SAY IT WAS FOOL PROOF). It is simply better than putting it straight in if it DOES contain parasites or bad bacteria. After 3 weeks most will be gone. I only want the salt...I dont need the plankton or any other benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 If a fresh batch has 100 theronts in it, after 3 weeks there will only be about 5 probably. (Something like that anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 By the way, ICH removal is impossible to remove from systems using NSW. Unless you Chlorinate the supply first....I have thought about looking further into this, but adding Trichlor or similar scares me. Anybody know a good site? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 for the last 13-14 years i have collected water from Takapuna and put it straight into my tank! Never had any ill effect (touch wood) Occasionaly I would store 200L for 6-8 weeks just for use in winter if there was a lot of rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Many moons ago when I was keeping cold water marines we used to store the sea water for 4-6 weeks before use in black containers to remove the light. It does not give sterilization but sanitization because you usually get a bacterial bloom when the filter feeders are removed from the equation. If you have filter feeders in your aquarium it may be a good source of food. I was keeping mainly fish. In the end I found it better to pass it slowly through a home made UV sanitizer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 I am a 4 year vetran of NSW. And have used both NSW and ASW. I will continue to use NSW. Its cheap, easy and to be honest I enjoy the trips to the ocean I have had 1 issue with NSW causing some colour loss/bleeching over night. No losses and tank recovered in a few weeks. Hasn't put me off, and to be honest I am not 100% sure it was the water. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warick hearn Posted December 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 The power filter I hooked up over night was full of carbon and filter wool so as to clear as much of the water as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 The bacteria that consumes the dying Plankton will be good bacteria. Im talking about possible bad bacterias that may be present. Sorry I don't realise that the dying plankton had a choice whether their decaying cells were used by "good" or "bad" bacteria. My mistake. ;-) It's every bacteria for themselves, "good" bacteria don't get first dibs at decaying cells. Parasite life cycles are usually over with within 3 weeks. Maybe. But it's a bit of a generalisation, and i'm sure the really nasty ones, the ones you really don't want in your tank, can outlast that. (I DID NOT SAY IT WAS FOOL PROOF). I know that, i'm not taking a swipe at those that use NSW, i'm just questioning the rational behind storing it for 3 weeks to kill bacteria and parasites. That's all. It is simply better than putting it straight in if it DOES contain parasites or bad bacteria. But is it really? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Layton, those hairs you love to split. Perhaps you should put them in your single malt :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Hey hard to believe but i agree with Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 lets face it - how anal can one be? its water from the ocean - as long as its sourced from a reliable location who cares? you could just keep it simple and put it straight in (as I and many others do) or go to extremes and put it through UV, carbon, skim it for 3 months etc. changing 10% or 20% is not a great concern. changing 50%+ in one hit maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 lets face it how anal can one be. Then why use RO if that is the case. More waste in seawater than tap water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Layton, those hairs you love to split. It's not splitting hairs. How do you think myths start? I don't like misinformation being spread. Keeping it 3 weeks, or dumping it in the tank straight away. I don't think it will make any significant difference. Keeping it certainly won't kill much bacteria. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Then why use RO if that is the case. More waste in seawater than tap water :roll: thanks for that pointless comment. so you are saying ONLY those people that use ASW can maintain a healthy tank with colourful acros and ONLY those that use NSW have poor water conditions and are overrun with bad algae? riiiiight.... its just like making a statement that "there is more good in seawater than in artificial water" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Myths? Well let me see.... One that springs to mind is the idea that there are "bad bacteria", special, particularly evil bacteria, that will ONLY be transmitted to aquariums that use the demon natural sea water. The reality is "bad bacteria" are everywhere. Another might be the idea that there are fish parasites that will last several months in a storage tank with no host. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 How are myths started? Interesting over the years to see them evolve on RC sometimes. They often start with someone with a particular view, who will argue black and blue that he is right. Most of the people can see the fallacy, but a percentage will follow, and a new myth is born. Sometimes they just start with one statement that "sounds right". This statement is then further embellished with each re-telling, and we have another myth. An example that springs to mind is the myth that zeovit rock will remove significant quantities of calcium from a tank. This myth apparently has many believers. But hey I don't want to get any zeovit bashers started :lol: That was just an example, there are many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 :roll: That's why I used quotes. "Good" bacteria can be "Bad" bacteria depending on the circumstances. I was just using the terminology which cracker was using, that's all. Parasites don't necessarily have to host on fish. They can have intermediate host (like copepods and other zoo-plankton). And have different life cycles which may be longer or shorter than that of Ich. To assume that they all have a thorrent stage lasting around 3 weeks is pretty sketchy. That's all. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 An example that springs to mind is the myth that zeovit rock will remove significant quantities of calcium from a tank. This myth apparently has many believers. I've never heard that one. Sounds like dubious to me. What reason did they give? Something to do with ion exchange I suppose? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 :roll: Parasites don't necessarily have to host on fish. They can have intermediate host (like copepods and other zoo-plankton). And have different life cycles which may be longer or shorter than that of Ich. To assume that they all have a thorrent stage lasting around 3 weeks is pretty sketchy. Layton I see. Special fish parasites that can survive months in storage by surviving on copepods and other zoo plankton. Please name these parasites, with examples of the local tanks they have showed up in, as we use NSW here. I'm always keen to learn something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted December 13, 2005 Report Share Posted December 13, 2005 Sounds like dubious to me. What reason did they give? Something to do with ion exchange I suppose? Layton You're onto it. Very dubious and in fact based on pseudo science. like a lot of myths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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