Light wiring

[kylefish02]

I have a fluro light which i bought off trademe.There are two wires a red and a black one.The black one goes to the thing which hold the fluros in place.The red one goes to a little box inside .Just wondering which is earth and which is power??

cheers Kyle

[Bluetom]

neither is earth. Red is live and black is neutral. Don't confuse neutral with earth. I you look at aplug the points will be labelled l, n and e, live, neutral and earth.

hope this heaps

[Snowman]

Deleted.

Any wiring should be done by an electrician as any advice for a novice to DIY could be dangerous.

I should have written that in an application where there are positive and negative e.g.automotive, red will be positive (power) black will be negative (earth).

Thats what ya get for trying to help. :roll:

As for 100% accurate that would scrap 75% of the advice about fishy things people are given on this site LOL

[Bluetom]

only in DC

[alanmin4304]

Red is phase, black is neutral and you must earth a flouro. EARTH IS GREEN

[Pegasus]

As a rule of thumb red will be power and black is usually earth.

Snowman... Your advise is DANGEROUS and Deadly

Some links here Kyle.

Suggest you read up and heed the warnings.

There is a circuit on the second link if you are "sure" what you are doing.

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/wiring ... t9952.html

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/diy-ho ... t3248.html

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/wiring ... t4820.html

Bill.

[Warren]

Snowman... Your advise is DANGEROUS and Deadly

Pegasus is right.

You do not know what you are doing so leave it alone.

Get someone who knows what to do (like a real electrician) to wire the unit up. They will also be able to make sure the guts of the fitting is safe.

I cannot stress enough, leave this stuff alone if you don't know what you're doing. There is no 'rule of thumb' with electrical wiring, - there's the right way and the wrong way. Get it wrong and you're probably dead.

Snowman obviously thinks he knows what he's doing but unfortunately isn't correct. If you have any doubt at all about what you are doing with electricity, do not touch it!!!!!!!

In a modern house (with ELCB's) snowmans wiring would cause the ELCB's to trip all the time...

If you wish to offer advice on this site, please make sure it's 100% accurate before posting.

Edit - If you are not 100% sure about advice on electrical devices please do not post it.

[Bluetom]

I disagree that if you don't know what your doing hen leave it alone.

Snowman was correct for DC but just a bit off as the lighting will be running on AC therefore black is neutral not earth.

If you don't know what your doing ask i reckon and that is the case here. Pegasus and Warren rather than suggesting he should fork out double what he paid for the light we could tell him the right way to do it the there would be no issue.

The box is the Ballast (i think thats the term) it should have a wiring diagram on it somewhere. The red should be connect to the live terminal and the black to the neutral, there should be a earth out piut from the ballast, connect a wire from here to the earth. Are you wanting to connect it to the wiring in your ouse or to a plug to plug into the wall.

The wiring in your house should be REd, blac and gree however the wiring in the flex running to the wall will be different colours. (someone correct me if the colour sceme is not right, and post the flex wiring colours)

There is a standardised way of wiring in NZ so have a look on the net and see what you can find and read, this will help you understand it all as well.

p.s. You cannot always assume the light was wired correct so red may be neutral and black may be live however this is unlikely.

Anymore questions fell free to post and i'll help as much as possible

[Warren]

I disagree that if you don't know what your doing hen leave it alone.

Snowman was correct for DC but just a bit off as the lighting will be running on AC therefore black is neutral not earth.

If you don't know what your doing ask i reckon and that is the case here. Pegasus and Warren rather than suggesting he should fork out double what he paid for the light we could tell him the right way to do it the there would be no issue.

I'm not going to tell him so he can go fry himself. It's dangerous!!

Snowman is only partly correct for DC (as there are many colours for DC voltage coding and no standard for extra-low-voltage DC wiring colours - did you know that?) but it only takes one very small mistake and poof...

I'd rather he forked out double than get a phone call saying he's dead from dodgy information given to him from this site. People who know nothing about electricity know exactly that. They have no idea how to connect it and no idea about just how dangerous it is. Incorrectly wiring a fluro over water is a recepie for disaster.

Incorrect information was given on this occasion. Had kylefish02 used that information it could have been very dangerous. It's basic common sense really. Bluetom, here you are giving information when you're not even sure if the box is called the ballast... You're in no position to give information if you are unsure yourself.

As I previously stated, if you are at all unsure about what you are doing, leave it alone and get someone who knows to do it for you.

I know the correct colours and wiring diagram as I have 20+ years experience in this industry. After thinking about it I decided not to post the information here as I don't want to be responsible for someone lese interpreting my information incorrectly and getting fried. You should consider the same thing, could you live with it?

[Warren]

Deleted.

Any wiring should be done by an electrician as any advice for a novice to DIY could be dangerous.

I should have written that in an application where there are positive and negative e.g.automotive, red will be positive (power) black will be negative (earth).

Thats what ya get for trying to help. :roll:

As for 100% accurate that would scrap 75% of the advice about fishy things people are given on this site LOL

You may be correct about the 75% but then again most of the info here works pretty well for most people. We all have different setups and find different things work.

The difference here is this information is about something that can be quite deadly to your health. Do you really want to risk killing yourself or other in your house to save a few bucks?

[Snowman]

I have a fluro light which i bought off trademe.There are two wires a red and a black one.The black one goes to the thing which hold the fluros in place.The red one goes to a little box inside .Just wondering which is earth and which is power??

cheers Kyle

I am not an electrician but basically i was saying that red won't be earth and black won't be power. As a rule of thumb if you have a positive terminal and a negative terminal red will be positive and black will be negative. e.g. automotive (that i do know about). That changes when you throw in a neutral but there was no mention of one in the original post.

Most posts on this site are opinions, experiences and thoughts rather than facts, though i can see your point when it comes to mucking around with something potentially fatal. Personally i do my own but i get it checked by an electrician mate before plugging it in which works out much cheaper.

I think most people realise that getting a shock from 240 volts will cause serious harm.

Kiwi ingenuity and a can do attitude is one thing thats makes us Kiwis unique and always will be.

At least Kyle asked for guidance rather than finding out the hard way so credit goes to him for that.

Good luck getting the light sorted and working Kyle

[chimera]

I disagree that if you don't know what your doing then leave it alone

agree, but it depends on the subject. playing around with electricity is a little different than plumbing up a sump or dosing additives.

I think most people realise that getting a shock from 240 volts will cause serious harm.

of course they do, so thats why they post asking for advice. when wrong advice is given, and especially when it could be life threatening, advice should NOT be offered whatsoever.

e.g. automotive

1. it's not a 12V car battery

2. a 12V car battery doesnt quite pack the same punch as a 240V 10amp power socket

At least Kyle asked for guidance rather than finding out the hard way so credit goes to him for that.

do you know how old Kyle is? Perhaps he's only 14 and takes advice easily and more carelessly than an adult? Perhaps not, who knows? This is one example I am 100% with the mod's on - the wiring is either right or it's wrong, there is no in between.

A little story for you - my 2 1/2yr old daughter decided to make herself some toast last Saturday morning. The toast got stuck, so in went her little fingers to pry it out. Two seconds later a loud bang and what I could only describe as a blood curdling scream. She had tripped the RCD to the entire upstairs of our house (we had replaced the old fuse style power board with RCD's only months before). We obviously freaked out and she got a burnt finger. I would consider her lucky and a lesson to be learnt for both us and her. Never underestimate electricity.

[alanmin4304]

The lead to the light may be different colours again as suggesteg earlier.

Brown--phase, blue--neutral, green/yellow-- earth. The earth wire usually is placed on the screw which holds the ballest into the fixture and therefore earths both.

[Bluetom]

That was one of the questions i got wrong for electeng, the flex colours, thats why i wasn't sure :lol: :lol:

[DiverJohn]

Bet your glad you did that!! How much were they ??

There are atleast two "things" inside a modern flouro fitting that fit this discription. If it is a twin fitting some of the wires go directly to the ballast, some go to the starters, and some go to the connection to mains supply.

If the body of the fitting is metal there MUST be an earth (a 3rd wire) the red and black you have identified may be 'internal wiring' and noting to do with connection to mains supply.

Please check with some one who knows... you may not nessasarily have to pay heaps for a sparky to do this. Try an appliance repair shop for,, $20 cash they may install the correct cable, and test it for you.

[kylefish02]

hanks everyone one for the advice.My Dad has taken the light to the zoo's electrician to do it.I was only going to do it myself if someone gave me direct instructions.The light has non earth so i will add one.

cheers Kyle

[Snowman]

I do know roughly how old Kyle is, a car battery would be a lesser shock but a shock from the coil pack is way more powerful than household power. If you read what i said when you have juat a positive and negative red is positive and black is negative, this has been taught at school for many years.

Thanks Chimera for your 1/2 cent worth of what was already said by Warren and Pegasus.

The problem with this site is instead of just correcting something there has to be the belittling comments for (i guess) the ego trip.

[Warren]

I do know roughly how old Kyle is, a car battery would be a lesser shock but a shock from the coil pack is way more powerful than household power. If you read what i said when you have juat a positive and negative red is positive and black is negative, this has been taught at school for many years.

Thanks Chimera for your 1/2 cent worth of what was already said by Warren and Pegasus.

The problem with this site is instead of just correcting something there has to be the belittling comments for (i guess) the ego trip.

There's no ego trip on my part here. Who really cares what I know.

The point here is to do with safety and dangerous advice. Hopefully you can see that.

For your information however, a car ignition coil is not more dangerous the household power. If this is what you think then you are at great risk of getting hurt by the mains.

A car coil only stores mJ of energy which it releases in about 500uS. It will give you a fairly big shock which you will feel and you'll probably jump a bit. Mains will not bite quite as hard but it won't let go. You'll get stuck on it until it burns out your muscles and nervous system because it's a continuous energy supply (unlike the coil). Then if you are still alive you'll end up with permanent damage and probably massive internal and external burns and scaring...

So if you still want to risk your life messing with stuff you really aren't sure about go ahead, don't heed the advice people have tried to give you.

mJ = millijoules

uS = microseconds

energy in the average car coil:

L=2mH

I=4A

Joules = 1/2 LI² = 0.5*0.002*4² = 16mJ or not much at all.

Energy from the mains:

Say a body resistance of 10k ohms while in a shock-grip

P=V²/R = 230²/10000 = 5.29J (or 330 times the energy in a car coil)

The 5.29J per second is also sustained for the entire time the shock is received instead of a one-off 16mJ pulse...

I'm not trying to make anyone look stupid here, far from it. I know about this stuff and just how dangerous it is. With electricity, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. There is a lot to know about electricity and it's not simple. The purpose of the information above is to show there's more to it than you may think and to try to show you there's more you need to learn before delving into wiring your own mains devices. Small mistakes like thinking a car coil is more dangerous than the mains is the sort of thing that gets people into trouble.

Please just listen to what I'm saying before getting hurt.

[Warren]

hanks everyone one for the advice.My Dad has taken the light to the zoo's electrician to do it.I was only going to do it myself if someone gave me direct instructions.The light has non earth so i will add one.

cheers Kyle

Good on you Kyle, let us know what it cost. I hope it works well for you.

[chimera]

Thanks Chimera for your 1/2 cent worth of what was already said by Warren and Pegasus.

The problem with this site is instead of just correcting something there has to be the belittling comments for (i guess) the ego trip.

my ego's big enough it doesnt need a boost. and smart comments like that really just belittle and undermine your credibility further. the fact that my daughter could have died in last weekends incident then reading posts like yours is not something i take lightly - so any reinforcement of what is being said is a positive one. oh, and welcome to the Internet, the land of misinformed information...

[kylefish02]

Ok since i have started a war here :lol: i will tell yo what i have been told to do by an electrician.He said i must put a rcd or something like that which will then trip the connection if any water does get to it.This sounds quite good but wondering how much am i going to pay for one of these??

cheers Kyle

[Warren]

Hi Kyle,

RCD's aren't cheap but they're a really good safety device. You'll still get a shock if you touch something live but the RCD will cut-out so fast you'll hardly feel it and the duration of the shock will be short enough so you survive fine.

Plug in RCD's (from a wholesaler) are about $74 (RRP) or $40.50 with a trade discount.

You may be able to find a cheaper one at the Warehouse or Mitre 10 when they have a special.

I have one on my heaters and lighting but not on the main pump. It's on a UPS so it runs 24/7 even when there's a powercut. Since it's a stainless steel pump and earthed, any fault in the pump should blow the fuse...