cracker Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 This will take awhile so will do it in stages. Removing one cycle will remove Ich/MV from your system. 1: Marine Ich, (cryptocaryon) and MV, (Marine Velvet), is a marine parasite that feeds on fish tissue and requires 3 other cycles to reproduce. THIS DISEASE IS VERY SERIOUS ONCE FIRMLY ESTABLISHED AND WILL QUICKLY WIPE OUT AN ENTIRE TANK IF NOTHING IS DONE. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE ITS KILLING POWER. Especially MV. (There are a few ways which I will cover shortly). 1: Salifert has a reefsafe product as you may know called "Stop parasite". This product seems effective for ICH and VELVET parasitic infestations.and comes from a good name. This product must be used at the right time or it may not help. If left too late the damage caused by ICH may create bacterial and fungal infections on the host fish and they will die from this even if you are dosing the product. Marine Velvet is veryt bad and sometimes the symptoms are too fast and will kill overnight. It has personally worked for me and will provide statistical results shortly. 2: Parasites are directly related to temperature. This is why we notice them more in the summer months as the cycle rapidly reproduces when the temps go up. RAISING TEMPERATURES TO ERADICATE HEAVY "ICH" or "MV" IN YOUR TANK WILL PROVE FATAL UNLESS YOU ARE IN THE PROCESS OF TREATMENT. This is what I did and murdered my fish...... :-? IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY PRODUCT, KEEP OR DROP YOUR TEMPERATURE TO 24 DEGREES, (SLOWLY), UNTIL YOU GET SOME PRODUCT. (If you cannot get product, cross your fingers and leave at 24 degrees). THIS WILL SLOW DOWN THE CYCLE, GIVING YOU AND THE FISH TIME TO FIGHT IT AND FIND PRODUCT! 3: OPTIONS OF ERADICATION: A: Removal of all your inhabitants rocks and corals/Inverts and treating them. B: Treating the whole tank as I do and relying on Mr Salifert (Large aquariums are a pain in the arse to dismantle the entire aquarium). C: Making sure NSW users are using at least 2 week old collected water, preferably one month. D: Treating all new things going into your tank. ICH or VELVET can be in your tank invisable for months, cycling as per normal with fish that are immune or partially immune. THIS MEANS YOU DO NOT KNOW THE PARASITIC INFECTION IS IN THE TANK/SYSTEM. The fish can be immune and show no signs. the parasites are operating in small cycles and the spots may not be visible. THIS IS WHEN TEMPERATURE, STRESSES AND THE LIKES REDUCES THE IMMUNE SYSTEM OF A FISH AND ALL OF A SUDDEN CANT DEAL WITH THE PARASITE LIKE IT COULD BEFORE. SO NOW IT STARTS TO SHOW WHITESPOTS AS IT CANT KEEP UP WITH FIGHTING THEM OFF. OR you add a new fish that is not immune and they get nailed. THIS IS WHERE YOU KNOW YOUR SYSTEM IS A CARRIER. IF YOU GET THROUGH THE WARMER PERIODS AND STRESSFULL PERIODS WITH NO SIGNS, THEN YOUR TANK IS MORE THAN LIKELY PARASITE FREE. TO KEEP IT THIS WAY, EVERYTHING ADDED TO THE TANK NEEDS SPECIAL REQUIREMENTS. 1: TREATING FISH 2: TREATING CORAL 3: TREATING LIVE ROCK ERADICATION PROCEDURES: 1: REMOVAL OF ALL INHABITANTS: (NOT using SALIFERT) A: take all fish from your display and put them in a temporary tank with skimmer, carbon heater, etc. B: raise temperature to 28-29 degrees and leave tank fishless for at least 28 days, preferably 45 days continuing to maintain your corals as per normal. MV can still be present after 45 days. C: add copper to the temp hospital tank following copper medication instructions and keep all fish here for the full 45 days. DO NOT add any more fish, rocks or coral to this hospital tank. If you have seen no signs of white spot at all for this entire period, you hospital tank should be ICH and VELVET free. if you have seen spots again you will have to dose more copper. Copper doesnt 100% guarantee success if it is MV. Antimalarial medication works better. D: Slowly add fish back into system. (Whitespot should now NEVER show up again as long as you do not add anything to your tank) that is: live coral live rock more fish live sand. inverts. 2: ADDING "THERONT" ATTACKING MEDICATION DIRECTLY TO THE REEF: A: TO BE CONTINUED............ Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 10, 2005 Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 You mean you have a job? I thought you spent all day futtzing with the tank and yabbing on chatsites !! :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 FYI Cracker quote from book . Aquariology In Nature it is rare to find a fish which is parasite free. fish often carry parasite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 yip, thats because in nature you cannot remove the cause... in a box you can. FYI 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 In nature though they don't tend to get as heavily infested with parasites when they do get them. I doubt any fish in the ocean dies from being overcome by ich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Sounds like a case of Marine Velvet to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 thats what i was thinking. ich is bad but never heard it bad enough to wipe out an entire tank that quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 If it's velvet, is the salifert stuff meant to be effective? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 its not velvet, but the Salifert deals to this also. i will know the progress of the salifert in 2 or 3 days time... heres hoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 thats what i was thinking. ich is bad but never heard it bad enough to wipe out an entire tank that quick. heaps of tanks have been wiped out by whitespot, especially the hotter countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 MV betcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossco Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 A question from a newbie - why is the warmer external temperature a potential factor when our tanks are still way warmer? (especially the ambient temperature over the day - not just peaks) Hmmmm.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 heaps of tanks have been wiped out by whitespot, especially the hotter countries. ...with chillers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Look, I didnt start this thread for argumentative bullshit. If you wanna learn something read it, if you dont, just shut up and go to another thread. Im trialling something here that seems good. whether its ICH, MV or a quick kick in the pants i dont care. Some people are intersted and if i can help someone, great. I'm learning shitloads myself from this and WILL work out a solution for ME. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 One for you Reef! I want to be clear on this point. I do not believe Cryptocaryon irritans is always present in our systems. With a strict quarantine protocol, it is possible keep an Ich-free aquarium. I just believe that there have been enough hobbyists who have misused a treatment or utilized an ineffective treatment option, such that they never really fully conquered their initial infestation. Their continuing problems over the course of many months, and the posting of those experiences, seem to be enough to promote this aquarium myth. Cryptocaryon irritans can be eradicated from an infected system with a proven treatment and can be kept out of the system if good quarantine practices are employed. Steven Pro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 you just keep going, never mind all those narrow minded people. at least we might learn some more. what is there to loose? it seems its a common problem in a few tanks lately and i guess its worth trying to find out why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Thanks Cookie, Ive added the second dose today and all fish are still ok. (Not 100% sure about my large female Tomato, I might lose her yet...fingers crossed). I didnt not know enough, or have the product at the time to save these guys and the infections have gone too far. The remaining fish are just purely fighters! As of tomorrow, the spots should be dropping off for their second stage. and the fish will get a break for awhile. then in a few days the tomites will hatch and voila..... Mr Salifert should grab the buggers and kill'em all! We'll soon see........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 If ich is running at low levels in a tank, only becoming noticeable when a stress event or similar happens, provided no new ich is introduced, it will die out in 10 to 12 months. This is due to something a bit like inbreeding. So even in an infected system such as yours Craig, your surviving fish will be immune, and if you QT all new arrivals you will be free in a year. The next problem though is that fish will lose their immunity if not exposed, so a permanent means to QT all new fish will need to be set up, otherwise another new outbreak could happen. Anyhow having lost several fish myself over the last few months that's what I'm doing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 agreed....immunity for the fish only lasts about 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Oh your still up! You'll be glad to hear the tang is doing great, eating like a pig. There is now an anti-jump barrier around the QT. All is sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 A question from a newbie - why is the warmer external temperature a potential factor when our tanks are still way warmer? (especially the ambient temperature over the day - not just peaks) Hmmmm.... if you have parasites in your system, the summer peeks will stress the fish a little and will be more likely to be less immune to the parasite than before. in the cooler months the temperature is more stable creating less stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 awesome A. Im going to get her soon and put her back in as part of a test procedure. theoretically, the medication should be stopping the "theront" stage. this can be proved by adding her back in....she should not get any spotting. I will keep the thread informed. has she any spots still A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 11, 2005 Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 Yes there are some visible. I believe most are gone in 7 days but a few laggards can stay on the fish up to 2 weeks. I was going to wait 2 weeks & transfer it into a bigger tank, however you obviously have a plan , so collect when you like. BTW the fish has a great personality does not seem bothered by the cramped surroundings, hangs out with the butterfly, and comes over when it sees me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2005 yeah, shes a cool fish, didnt want to lose her. let me know when the two weeks are up and she has no spots.... I'll grab her then. she needs to be free of visable spots for the experiment. what was the start date? Cheers A. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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