Feelers Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I think the problem is we have a parliment who will make laws forever, they keep churning them out. Its funny that our system assumes that there will never be enough laws. If it aint broke - legislate. In my home town (Havelock North) you can get a $25000 fine and a criminal record for having a beer on you in the liquor zone. You can't get off the criminal record either(the fine is optionable). Imagine having a record for life because you had a beer when you were 17. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 You can also have your car impounded for a month, lose your license for 6 months and be fined something like $750 if your car tires squeak a little bit while a cop is looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Well me I've now developed a very clever foolproof way to get around all those problems! SSHHH! Here it is - Now that I know the law, I abide by it. Saves having to gesticulate with a finger or whatever other problems people find themselves having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Ahh, would you break an unfair law?, Or what about ignorantly breaking one? - it's no excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Well some laws I don't agree with. But they have to be obeyed because if everyone decided wether or not they agreed with & obeyed each law then there's no point having any laws. So in a democracy we sacrifice some of our freedom for the general good, it has to be that way. In a police state run by a brutal dictator, the laws are made with a different rational and the breaking of them may be justified. I was raised in an environement where the police were considered the enemy, and treated that way. It was not until I was in my late 20's the realisation came the law, and for that matter the police, is actually there to help us, albeit the system is designed by humans with all their faults. For me life got a lot less stressful and even quite good, once I had a paradigm shift in my own attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 It is the MAFia goon squad that use to be cops. Muhahahaha The cops are only involved when you refuse entry, or any of their requests. I'd refuse entry on principle. I'd force a search warrent/writt and supervision. "Wellington resident violently resists confiscation of dangerous illegal animal from his home." I would only resort to violence if they did, maybee i'd stab them with the lion fish, poetic irony. A year or so back, a relly of one of the members here on the forum, earnt himself a seven year stint as a guest of HMPS, he had been smuggling in exotic fish, and made a slip up. Really? That drunk driver that killed 3 peoples only got 8 years (out in 5), so a 7 year stint seems insane. Would I brake a law knowingly? Yes, but I will take full responsibility for my actions. However I do belive that in most situations common sense prevails, even in law. It would have to be a strange set of circumstances end up breaking rocks in the sun or wearing a large fine for being in possession of a fish. Poses no risk to the public at large, or NZs aqriculture or any other industry (given that it exists naturally in this country and is not protected or endandagers). WOW - this is the best thread on this forum for ages! Beats discussing the existance of IRON and VINIGAR in zeovit Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Can anyone name the act this is all under? If your that bored, it's covered under HSNO (Hazardous Substances and New Organisms act). Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Well some laws I don't agree with. But they have to be obeyed because if everyone decided wether or not they agreed with & obeyed each law then there's no point having any laws. So in a democracy we sacrifice some of our freedom for the general good, it has to be that way. Hmmm.... I would say that Rosa Parks and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (among many others) would have to disagree. April 16th, 1963: "Martin Luther King is arrested and jailed during anti-segregation protests in Birmingham, Ala.; he writes his seminal 'Letter from Birmingham Jail,' arguing that individuals have the moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I'm completely with JoeBlog on that one. Its 'the man' trying to keep a brother down. Pie 'rage against the machine' Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Amen brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetom Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 As a law student, it is possible to say that the law is unjust and immoral. Depending on which judge you get you could create legislative change. Drafters and parliament are dimwits when it comes to writing whole proof legislature, the law is constantly changing from one year to another and all it takes is a landmark case. Not sure if a lionfish would do it, but i'd be happy to fight it pro bono (sp??) (free) once i graduate. Not that it would have anything to do with my degree as i'm going to do intectual property. I'm going to go back to one of my previous staements that we need an aquarium floating in international waters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Not sure if a lionfish would do it, but i'd be happy to fight it pro bono (sp??) (free) once i graduate. Not that it would have anything to do with my degree as i'm going to do intectual property. BLueTom - A word of advice, if you want to pass your major you best learn how to spell it correctly first Hell you can defend me any day. Pie vs. The Country of New Zealand. Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetom Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Yeah been studying all day so kinda can't be bothered being pandanitic. Sure thing pies, you can be first on the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Don't hold it against me if you loose your first case Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 BLueTom - A word of advice, if you want to pass your major you best learn how to spell it correctly first Don't hold it against me if you loose your first case now there is a contradiction in terms :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Kind of surprised you guys all seem to hold respect for the law in such low esteem. I suspect there is an element of overly indulged & spoiled rotten rich kid syndrome at work here. For a student of the law to say it is all written by dimwits is astonishing. It is revised by caselaw as a refinement process, this is a good thing, not a bad thing. Wether or not it is written by dimwits, if nobody obeys it our society could not exist. We vote for our government. They say that in a democracy, the people get the government they deserve, and they deserve the government they get. In our society, there will be a percentage of people who will never knowingly break any law. Then, at the other end of the spectrum will be a likely equal percentage of people who will always break the law. Then there will be the rest of us spread across the middle at various points. But for society to remain stable the greater majority must have general respect for the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Hmmm.... I would say that Rosa Parks and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (among many others) would have to disagree. April 16th, 1963: "Martin Luther King is arrested and jailed during anti-segregation protests in Birmingham, Ala.; he writes his seminal 'Letter from Birmingham Jail,' arguing that individuals have the moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Didn't read his seminal letter, but in any case I'm not going to argue with Dr. King. However the blatant racism and anti-reformism that were a feature of the American South in those days, are a different kettle of fish to trying to avoid laws relating to the keeping of banned and venemous species. To me that is no different to arguing you can drive through a red light if you wish, because if you get killed that's your problem noone elses. Such arguments ignore the fact that these laws are designed for the benefit of society as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I think of it this way. What is the point in trying to idiot proof the world through legislation. As long as ones actions have no effect on other people, who cares if they do something stupid and kill themselves. Think of it as natural selection, less dumbasses in the world to pollute the gene pool! Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 :lol: :lol: :lol: ROTFL !! Well you certainly know how to present your case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 And yes I'll also agree about the overlegislation. For example, it scares the crap out of me thinking about someone like Helen Clark making social legislation and telling me how to run my family! Luckily society in general has resisted some of her control freak tendencies and not allowed this to happen as yet. That's the value of democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 Personally, I think Helen's a communist at heart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I agree with you wasp, but its better to have a laugh about it here than stab someone to death with the pectoral fin of a lionfish haha. If you voted it gives you the right to whinge all you want Despite all this I am reminded of a punk song by 'nofx'. -The idiots are taking over. "darwin's rollin over in his coffin the fittest are surviving much less often, I'm startin to feel a lot like charlton heston, stranded on a primate planet with the apes and orangutans that i'l run it to the ground. majority rule, don't work in mental institutions- sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand, biggest solutions" He's talking about america of course, but still quite astute for a punk song! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 However the blatant racism and anti-reformism that were a feature of the American South in those days, are a different kettle of fish to trying to avoid laws relating to the keeping of banned and venemous species. To me that is no different to arguing you can drive through a red light if you wish, because if you get killed that's your problem noone elses. Such arguments ignore the fact that these laws are designed for the benefit of society as a whole. Maybee this is the whole point. The 'law' surrounding the whole subject would appear to be pointless, hence the complete disregard for it. Back to Mr Lionfish. How can not keeping a Lionfish benifit society more than keeping one? The reality is that its because the there are rules preventing the importation of venomus species of animals, because New Zealand does not want to be seen as Asutralia, with all sorts of killer bugs and critters everywhere. I am sure at the time the law was created, no-one was thinking about ornimential fish for the pet trade, they were thinking of snakes and spiders. You can import guns, liquor, cigaretts, pornography, knifes, weapons, poisons, dogs, cats and fireworks BUT not certain fish and coral, because they are not on a list or becasue they are on the wrong list. While pointless laws continue to exist, people like me will continue to ignore them. Such arguments ignore the fact that these laws are designed for the benefit of society as a whole. Wasp, you may want to think that but the reality is different. If laws were there for our protection the sale of Liquor and Cigaretts and McDonalds would be outlawed. I won't, and encourage others to do the same, follow rules/laws that are so obviously pointless the defy common sense. An interesting question would be this: Do people in NZ want Lionfish because they want them, or because they are not allowed to have them? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 If laws were there for our protection the sale of Liquor and Cigaretts and McDonalds would be outlawed. Pie Well said. Just goes to show, the people get what the people want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2005 Report Share Posted November 3, 2005 I'm completely with JoeBlog on that one. Your with Joe, I'm with Layton, funny old world aint it! :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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