SPS colouration (or lack of)

[reef]

Reef, since when does zeovit cause RTN ?

I did not say it does cause RTN, i said it can.

I am sure you will be aware that people have lost acros using it, i know i have and so have many on reef central.

There will be many reasons why it is happening. some people dont follow instructions, could drop nutrients too low, could be something in the zeolite etc,etc.

[ZEOvitANZ]

I am not getting into an argument about it.

All you have to do is look at the peoples tanks who use it, then compare them to layton's

Brendan

[lduncan]

All of the above came from the manufacturer's guide on their website.

Not much to argue with.

Layton

[cookie extreme]

:roll:

[jetskisteve]

Point Layton how about some new pics of yr tank now its settled in ??

[lduncan]

Far from settled at the moment:

http://www.nzreefs.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=44

Just got to remember to take the camera with me in the mornings when I leave. (I'm not living where the tank is setup). Some colours are alright, others are crap at the moment.

It is interesting to see the whole rock cooking process going on in the tank. I never though the rocks were that bad. Never had cyano problems, (only ever had a small 2 inch patch once), and the odd isolate hair algae crop a couple of times, yet the rock is full of detritus.

Once you see this process in action, you really do consider the whole BB thing a little more seriously.

Layton

[cookie extreme]

:roll:

what else can one say? knocking other peoples ways of doing things (whatever that may be) but can not show better results at all in his tank(or any results as a matter of fact).

what happened to Control, another "listen to me how you should do things, but can't show you any pictures ever" reefer from CHCH?

[lduncan]

I'm not knocking anything.

I'm just saying that there is not need to sweep something under the carpet and pretend like it doesn't exist, that's all.

The fact that zeovit does what it does, sand beds do what they do, and BB does what it does, has nothing to do with my tank. There still going to do what they're doing.

Layton

[cookie extreme]

has nothing to do with my tank

i think it does, because whatever system one uses reflects on ones tank same with saying that other are useless without showing a better way. but then people using "useless" methods have great looking tanks and are willing to post picture of them.

and i don't care what people use, be it Zeovit, MM, vodka, draino, cheap spanish red wine or battery acid. if they have success with it, great don't knock it.

i go around to other reefers and judge their tank not on size, method applied (i.e. vodka) or all that fancy equippment they may have(or not). but solely on their success with keeping and growing corals. may be instead of showing all those beautiful corals people grow we should put up a list of the ones that have died in our tanks. and compare the mortality to the methods that are applied!

some people will have no doubt pretty long list. :-?

others keept them with absolut minimal losses. and i think this is something we should try to achive first of all. so go the system that works best for you and mostly your corals!

i show people my tank and tell them what i use (Zeovit) without pressuring them to do the same. let them decide what to use. its a free world!!!

[lduncan]

Whooa hold up.

What systems did I call useless?

Layton

[Brianemone]

ive had two corals die and lost a few frags (as in lost in the rockwork never to be found), my first death was one of the first corals i got (a large toadstool) it didnt like the transition and my tank wasnt ready for it either, second coral was a staghorn (one of my first acro's) that got picked at continuosly by a coral beauty. i think my current setup is one of the most simple around but except for a few setbacks (flatworms) my tank was showing alot of promise. rueben can attest to some of the acro colours i had previous to the flatworms that i never took pics of.

[dogmatix]

C.E (Chris) thankyou so much, at last some one here is talking sense instead of more of the same B.S. Agree with everything youv'e said, this just one of the reasons why we no longer (unfortuonately) refer customers to this site, which might a say is such a good place to meet people and get help (most of the time anyway)

Just my 2 cents

Ben

[cookie extreme]

i said "useless" like unsafe, risky, hard to follow, not proven etc etc what ever you want to call it. its the aggressive negativeness in lots of post in this forum regarding the systems some people use. why? doesn't seem have as bad anywhere else? why does it seem that there is only ever one right way to get a great result and many/ any other attempts are being rubbished. why? this is how this hobby has gotten this far over the last 30 odd years, by trying new ways that may be a better way. poiting out only the negative points isn't helpful at all.

[lduncan]

i show people my tank and tell them what i use (Zeovit) without pressuring them to do the same. let them decide what to use. its a free world!!!

Fine, but like I said, there is no need to sweep things under the carpet. It's not helpful.

Layton

[lduncan]

i said "useless" like unsafe, risky, hard to follow, not proven etc etc what ever you want to call it.

Even if something is unsafe, risky, hard to follow, not proven, it doesn't necessarily mean it's useless.

this is how this hobby has gotten this far over the last 30 odd years, by trying new ways that may be a better way. poiting out only the negative points isn't helpful at all.

Ignoring the negatives is not helpful.

If you use a DSB, you should know what it does.

If you use zeovit, you should know what it does.

If you use a SSB, you should know what it does.

If you go BB, you should know what it does.

Layton

[cookie extreme]

well i will show you a positive tank. mine!!!

the positve in most cases outweights the negative ones. looking only at negative points especially for nwebees is very offputting and frustrating for many. i look at the positive. but then are always people who will try to find something negative about anything. i think it is much more important to spread to got things around, like others do on other forums! instead of playing tug of war with opinions. because many don't really care. like your draino i think its a great idea but most others taking the piss. and you will most likely never change their mind, regardless if you right about and you can bang your head for as long as you want, they will always find something negative about it. which could be just the way they apply it and has nothing to do with it working or not. (i.e. my coral died after using Laytons draino method so it must be crap and highly unsafe). and because most follow the majority and the mainstream many might miss out on something good. now wouldn't that be sad?

[wasp]

If you use a DSB, you should know what it does.

If you use zeovit, you should know what it does.

If you use a SSB, you should know what it does.

If you go BB, you should know what it does.

Layton

Agree, and dissagree.

To really understand every process in our tank, there is a tremendous amount of knowledge required. None of us will ever know everything, it cannot be done.

So to a beginner it is important to spend time gaining knowledge. But in my opinion anyway, what I would say to a beginner, is go and visit some reef keepers, find one with a tank that is obviously healthy and well run, then pick his brains and run his system.

Learning absolutely everything including negatives can come later provided the person is using a method shown to work, and is abiding by the nessecary rules of that method to ensure success.

[lduncan]

Agree, and dissagree.

To really understand every process in our tank, there is a tremendous amount of knowledge required. None of us will ever know everything, it cannot be done.

So to a beginner it is important to spend time gaining knowledge. But in my opinion anyway, what I would say to a beginner, is go and visit some reef keepers, find one with a tank that is obviously healthy and well run, then pick his brains and run his system.

Learning absolutely everything including negatives can come later provided the person is using a method shown to work, and is abiding by the nessecary rules of that method to ensure success.

I'm not necessarily saying you have to know how it works (THAT can come later, if at all). But just knowing what it does, completely. Not what it does some of the time, but what it does in it's entirety, without glossing over the negatives.

Also, the negatives are important in the progress of the hobby, and anything in general. Most learning comes from mistakes. That's how things progress. Not by pretending that something works in a different way to what it actually does.

I for one would not like to setup a tank with a DSB on someone's advice, then several months, or a couple of years down the track, have rock looking like crap covered in algae and cyano, spending hundreds of dollars on phosphate removers a year, then have that person say. "Oh yeah the negative is that the sand bed doesn't actually get rid of the phosphate, it just stores it, it leaches up into the rocks too. Once it's full it leaches it back into the water." Some people may be prepared to take this risk. But if they don't know about it from the outset, then they have no choice in the matter.

Pitfalls are just as important as the benefits, and help people in making informed decisions. It's all i'm saying. Give the whole truth, not just the good half. Let people decide for themselves.

Layton

[wasp]

I'd in broad terms agree with that. See- we have something in common

Also, I was not in my last post refering to zeovit in particular, I think for a beginner all they can ever do at first is judge a system by results, any system.

But one thing I can say in relation to zeovit is it saddens me to see a campaign of trying to pin negatives to it when it is really a result of not understanding the method. I cannot understand the reason for trying to imply things such as , for example, "no point sweeping things under the carpet". Pointless rhetoric and unfounded vague insinuation.

On another note, in relation to your rock cooking Layton, while rock cooking will definately work, in terms of cleaning out the pores blocked in your rock, I don't think it should be a regular strategy, a better strategy is to run a tank low in nutrients so the rock will not get like that in the first place. Then the tank does not have to be torn down periodically.

But anyhow, I'm not wanting another great debate over all this, end of the day each person can run their tank how they want as long as it makes them happy.

[lduncan]

On another note, in relation to your rock cooking Layton, while rock cooking will definately work, in terms of cleaning out the pores blocked in your rock, I don't think it should be a regular strategy, a better strategy is to run a tank low in nutrients so the rock will not get like that in the first place. Then the tank does not have to be torn down periodically.

I agree. It is a process which should only happen once though. There is generally no periodic tank tear down to cook the rocks. It happens when organic levels in the tank water are lower than those in the rock. In my case, this was after a massive skimmer upgrade. It's sort of like an osmosis process.

Once the rock is cooked, and the tank is kept clean, the process won't happen again.

Layton

[lduncan]

It's kind of funny actually.

I never intended to have a barebottom tank, it was just that i was too lazy to really clean the sand and put it back in after the tank move.

I also never intended to cook the rocks, it just happened after I upgraded the skimmer.

So, it was all really by accident.

Layton

[dogmatix]

Great to see the thread back on track

[chimera]

yes indeed. well im about to start removing my lights and shift the 250's outwards a bit more to spread the light more evenly across the tank. i had another look at the 250's and noted that there are reflectors only on the sides of the box, at 45's or there abouts. no reflector at the top. where can you get good reflective aluminium from?

[lduncan]

Any aluminium, plus a bit of brasso and elbow grease will give a nice reflective sheet.

Definitely not the cheapest, but maybe the most convenient source here:

http://www.dse.co.nz/cgi-bin/dse.storef ... View/H2560

Layton

[chimera]

thanks