Ray Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I'm a novice, having just set up a coral aquarium. No fish yet, just a couple of soft corals. All the chemistry is excellent, then suddenly, worms of some kind appear, (approx 2 - 3 mm long). They look like a tiny centipede and move quite fast. They're busy making unsightly black webs over the substrate and live coral. Their webs inflate with oxygen and eventually burst, leaving unsightly straggly strands. I've no idea what these critters are (good or bad) or how to control / erradicate them, so I'd really appreciate some help. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Weird. Never seen or heard of anything like that. Can you get a pic of it? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 do you know how to post pics on here? A picture would be extremely helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Hi and thanks. They're way too small to photograph, sorry. They seem to flit in and out of the crevices in the coral rock - they don't seem concerned about any particular lighting either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 they sound like pods to me (at least to be that small). have you actually seen the small bugs making the web or is the apperance of both coincidental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 I think you got pods, and cyano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Hi. You're right in that both the webs and the appearance of these critters appeared at the same time. Coincidental maybe, but I think they're related. I've also noted extremely small (brine shrimp like) creatures floating around the tank, but planned to deal with them later. These web building guys are a worry though. It builds a very black web which eventually bursts, due to oxygen collecting under it. I can brush off the webs and syphon, but it's there again next morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 can you tell me what 'Pods' are please and if I should be worried about these? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Pods, I should have said copepods, they are little critters that run around in your tank, exactly as you describe. They are beneficial scavengers, part of the wonder of the little ecosystem which is our tank. They are also a great source of live food for your fish when you get them. The black stuff, well I'll bet it's really a dark purply red, is probably cyano bacteria. It is unsightly but is not harmful unless it covers things from the light. It is a mass of photosynthetic bacteria that grow when the tank is overloaded with nutrients. It should be syphoned, this will remove it along with the nutrients it contains. Of course, more will grow as long as you have sufficient nutrients, so you need to work on your nutrient control. IE, skimming, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Actually I just took another look at your first post, if they are fast, they are probably mysid shrimps, another beneficial scavenger that will again provide live food to your fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 How old is your tank, and has it cycled yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Hi and thanks for all your helpful advise. My tanks about 4 months old and has cycled. I've been keeping a close eye on the chemistry and all is fine. Nitrate, Nitrite, Amonia all zero. PH 8.2 Calsium 440. I am now wondering though if indeed the 'web' and the 'worm' are unrelated. Maybe I've just spotted the 'worms' because I've been looking a lot closer since the 'webs' have been evident. The wee creatures definately crawl around quite fast ducking into crevices. I'll try a cyphon and water change. The 'webs' cyphon off easily. The 'web' look quite black but are definately covering areas that have a good coating of dark red to purple growth. A protein skimmer will be hard to fit as the tank has an enclosed lid (filter and lights all built in) but I'll investigate the option for testing the nutrient levels to see if this is the problem. Thanks again everyone. Help much appreciated. Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Can take 9 months for marine to cycle esp if you live rock wasn't already cycled. The readings can all look pretty normal but the algae/cyno blooms keep happening. I would try and get a skimmer in there also, without one it wil be hard to keep anything other than fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Hi Ray, here's a thing about mysid shrimp, http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... reeder.htm although they are a lot smaller and faster than these photos make them appear. Here's a photo of cyano growing on this guys rock and sand http://www.aquariumadvice.com/photopost ... photo=8830 and here's an article about cyano http://netclub.athiel.com/cyano/cyanos2.htm One easy fix for cyano is a product you buy in the shop that kills it, but you should NOT do it this way. The reason is that it kills the cyano, releasing all the nutrients back into the tank and in a few weeks when the chemical you put in has stopped working, the cyano will likely return with a vengeance. If you do not have a skimmer, do look at getting one, in my opinion this is the single most important piece of equipment to keep a clean healthy tank. There are rumors of healthy tanks with no skimmer, but I've yet to see one that really measures up by todays standards. From my own experience, I know that some of these problems such as cyano and algae can be quite discouraging and seem impossible to beat. But concentrate on keeping your tank nutrient low, keep reading and asking questions, and these problems will become a distant memory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I consider a skimmer a mandatory piece of equipment for a tank. I don't think you can keep a successful tank without one. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 but I've yet to see one that really measures up by todays standards. I consider a skimmer a mandatory piece of equipment for a tank. I don't think you can keep a successful tank without one. All good advice for the beginner, but not nessessarly true. There are lots of examples of skimmerless tanks out there that look outstanding, and are keeping corals and fish that many of us struggle with. My advice would be that a skimmer is essential, however building a system without a skimmer would be an exciting challenge for an advanced fishkeeper, but to be avoided by the masses. In bob fenners book he sais that skimmers are 'the most importand breakthrough in successfully keeping marine animals'. so that sais something. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Pies, I have yet to see a sustainable skimmer-less system. I haven't even seen a valid methodology for a skimmer-less system. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 i think it would be great to be able to do in in a more natural way how about we start a seperate thread (again) to discuss it, as not to kill this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Thanks everyone for your much appreciated help and experienced advise. I've syphoned the offending growth along with a 20% water change this morning, but see tonight that it's returning ... so yes, a skimmer seems to be the obvious solution. And yes, small problems in a new tank, (particularly for a novice like me) do become major issues, but with all your help, I'm now looking on them as a challenge rather than a worry. Thanks all. I'll check out skimmers and see how I can somehow incorporate one into my tank on the weekend. I'll keep you posted. Cheers, Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 i think it would be great to be able to do in in a more natural way how about we start a seperate thread (again) to discuss it, as not to kill this thread Happy for any advise or ideas you can offer Brian. Cheers, Ray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I have yet to see a sustainable skimmer-less system. I haven't even seen a valid methodology for a skimmer-less system. This tank is skimless http://www.korallenriff.de/mark_re_fische.html You can go skimless however only if you gain more experiance. Skimming is important especially if you are just getting into marines. Ring jansens as they got some real cheap skimmers. Queen skimmers for $20. even better get the air drive skimmers. so cheap al at give away prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 I don't think skimming / not skimming has anything to do with experience. For a skimmer-less tank to be sustainable, maintenance would be virtually a full time job, making it unsustainable. Phosphorous is the main problem with skimmer-less tanks, I don't see how people get rid of it. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Phosphorous is the main problem with skimmer-less tanks, I don't see how people get rid of it. The caualerpa uses it. and then you trim it. or you use a phostphate remover. skimmers dont take much phostphate out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Probably could do pretty well with a moderate size tank and a BIG refugium. Would have other advantages too having something like a 1000liter refugium in a big tub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 Well I would like a tank like that, I better throw away my skimmer! But seriously, the tank is primarily softies, lps, gorgonians, which may prosper in that type of system. I presume it will have a major refugium plus chemical filtration such as carbon. However it is interesting to note that the biggest commercial promoters of that type of skimmerless systems, Miracle Mud, have done an about face and now make and recommend skimmers. Going skimmerless has it's applications, such as not removing food for gorgonians, but these are specialist areas for those with a particular interest. I think many new reefers start out thinking they can do it without a skimmer also, thinking this is "natural", but end up getting tired of cleaning algae off the glass every day and get a skimmer. And Ray, good luck with getting the skimmer, but once you find something you like, do ask here before purchase. There are skimmers, and skimmers. Also, a skimmer will not clean up your tank overnight, but it is a major part of the long term strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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