Richard Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 Just had a chat with a friend of mine online... he is breeding flowerhorns in Malaysia... and he wants me to try and get one in for myself... he wants me to find out about whether they can be brought into NZ... I have asked around before... but it seems like it is a gray area... nothing is guaranteed... especially cos this is a new breed of fish... but it is not on the restricted list...so that is good... Just wondering how I go about doing this... I think I will need to send in an application to import a fish and see if it gets approved right? I will need to get a permit of some sort?? And to do that I will need to nominate a place to quarantine the fish? I know of only 2 quarantine facilities in chch... redwood aquatics and the fish tank... i think they would be able to help me somehow... any more things I have to find out or consider?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 Good luck getting someone to quarantine them, apparently most will only deal with fish wholesalers. I think redwood aquatics and the fish tank only import fish for their own sale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 14, 2002 Report Share Posted December 14, 2002 You need an importer with the appropriate licence to agree to get one for you. Good luck - you'll need it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 what is a flowerhorn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 I personally don't know much about the breed... This is an excerpt from another website: Flower Horn, Flowerhorn, Lump Head Cichlid, Malaysia Rajah Cichlasoma, Hualorhan, Luohan "Cichlasoma" sp. [see "ORIGIN" below] ORIGIN: Believed to be a hybrid between Amphilophus citrinellus and Amphilophus trimaculatum first developed in Malaysia around 1996. Some claim that the hybrid has since been crossed with the "Giant Blood Parrot" -- a hybrid of its own. Hence the Flower Horn is a completely artificial fish and it lacks a bonified scientific name. SIZE: To 12" (30 cm) HAB: Originally Central America, but now captive bred in Asia. Amphilophus citrinellus - Southern Mexico, Nicaragua (lakes-Nicaragua, Managua, and Xiloa; Rio San Juan), Honduras, Costa Rica (Costa Rica River and Cuba River). Amphilophus trimaculatum Southern Mexico & Guatemala (Chiapas and Huamuchal). S: bottom, middle TANK: A 48' (122 cm) tank with a capacity of 55 gallons (209 L) is sufficient for a specimen up to 8' (20 cm). Larger tanks are required for larger fish. The tank should be large with plenty of open swimming area. Provide plenty of hiding places with stones, cave, and roots. These structures must be well-anchored. Use live plants at your own risk -- plastic plants are a safer bet. WATER: pH 6.5-8 (7.2), 6-25 dH (10), 73-86°F (23-30°C). SB: A territorial and pugnacious cichlid, especially around spawning times. The Midas Cichlid can be combined with medium to large sized cichlids - small fish will be eaten. Mates form monogamous pairs and become fine parents. If the female is not ready to spawn, she may be bullied to death by the male. Keeping two mature males in a tank is not recommended - one will likely be killed. SC: Other large sturdy fish. Cichlasomines, South American cichlids, Loricarids, Pimelodids, large Characins. FOOD: Live; snails, fish, earthworms, insects; chopped meat; vegetables; spinach, peas, lettuce; pellets; tablets. SEX: Males are slightly larger, more aggressive and haved a more developed nuchal hump on their forehead. Spawning season is easiest time to discern sex. B: Similar to Amphilophus citrinellus. Increase the water temperature a few degrees to 79-86°F (26-30°C). As many as 1000 eggs are usually laid on a vertical surface (i.e. slate, pane of glass) or sometimes on rocks at the tank floor. The eggs are guarded by the female and the territory is defended by the male. The eggs hatch in 3 days and the young are moved to large, previously dug, pits where the parents continue their care. The fry can swim on their own after 5 days, at which time they can be fed small live foods. Occasionally the fry may adhere to the flanks of the parents in order to feed off a mucus sections produced by the skin of the parents. BP: 6. Breeding is not especially difficult. R: Flowerhorns display their best colors (and largest hump) when they are stressed (excited). Hence they are often kept in small tanks, with bright surroundings (colored gravel) and mirrors -- much to the detriment to the fish. Mistreatment of this species is widespread. The Flowerhorn is the focus of a major craze in Asia and high quality fish fetch thousands of dollars on the market. Many varieties are available. One of the factors behind this craze is the belief that the Flowerhorn may achieve feng-shui fish status. To date the Asian Arowana has held this title as thousands have kept Arowanas believing they bring balance and good fortune to the life of the keeper. Many dedicated aquariasts (especially States-side and in Europe) are vehemently opposed to hybrids on ethical grounds and are quite vocal in denouncing this fish. DC: 6. The Flowerhorn is an aggressive species which must be kept in a large tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 You can check out www.flowerhorn.com for some pics on the fish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 Richard are these the fish that are for sale in one of those asian arowana sites, if they are they are selling for around $1000 to $2500 us i think could be very wrong. To get them in just ask the shops which import thier own stock or try the major shops in the north island, will courier them to your door for about $25, in chch try redwoods, pet world, or the fishtank, if you have any luck let me us know for they are an awesome looking fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 Yes... I think that is it.... they are really fetching quite ridiculous prices... I would not pay that much for them... but it just happens my friend breeds them... so I can get them pretty cheap from him... I think they look just like some sort of Cichlid..... actually... the avatar Midas has kinda looks like one... what fish is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 his avatar is a pic of a red devil/midas Do you intend to keep the flowerhorn with the aro? becasue if so are you sure your silver aro will be alright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 They are a man-made hybrid and there are a lot of sites out there trying to get them banned. Some fish forums try to ban discussing them. They certainly don't do anything for me, need huge tanks, and are ridiculously priced. They are not on the MAF allowable import list so doubt you could get one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 hybrid fish get the thumbs down from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 true.... they dont do anything for me as well... the red devil/ midas looks nice though... why is it called a red devil if it is not red?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CID in OZ Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 To each his own :-? But why would you want to pay the money (ridiculus figures) for a X breed that would be a threat to the gene pool of existing large central americans in the hands of people that know no better I'm glad that you are at least asking questions about them and hopefully will make your mind up for the betterment of the hobby Sorry but it is a subject that is frown on by genuine cichlid keepers and treated with the distain that Blood parrots and juicing (dye injecting) attracts in most countries with the exception of Asia check this site http://www.sydneycichlid.com/flowerhorn.html It is marketed on the superstitions and ancient beliefs of the Asian people of attracting luck and good fortune with no other thought than the financial return it will generate for the portrayers of such paranoia Chris 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 Someday someone will make a hybrid that isn't hideous. That's my biggest problem with them, they're all ugly. If someone hybridized cardinal tetras and Bristlenoses and got a bristlenose colored like a cardinal, I'd buy some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 15, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 Interesting read I must say... I never knew there were so many hybrids out there... these red blood parrots... are they the same as the parrot fish sold in shops? And does it mean that all the Discus sold in shops are mostly hybrids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macka Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 Yes Discus are hybrids as the different species and subspecies have been crossed that they have lost the family tree as such. Why is this accepted? Because they are similar. What an uproar that would cause if these groups got on that cause, Which danio is man made? and cichlids will crossbred in nature themselves. example central americans, if a species is isolated by its self it will reproduce with a local species, they are really bad for this, I think you are not supposed to kept cichlasoma motaguanse and cichlasoma managuense together or was it the cichlasoma motaguanse and cichlasoma dovii (not sure what combination it is) also the jack dempsey with similar looking fish like itself, and so i choose to sit on the fence on this one. As for dyed fish I dont agree with that, injecting a fish that costs 10 cents to boost its value to $2 is really quite money grubbing and degrading. But people buy them. These subjects are touchy so i agree with cid each to their own, All this has been covered in a tfh magizine, I will try find the issue no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsvinyl Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 It doesn't seem like the flowerhorns are selling that well over here in the U.S. Check out www.aquabid.com. Many have been listed there for various prices and I don't think I've seen anyone bid on one of them. The members of www.predatoryfish.com go crazy for them, because they like big, aggressive fish with large nuchal humps. To me, you could get a red devil, Midas or a trimac for alot less money and not have to contend with the high price and hybridization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 15, 2002 Report Share Posted December 15, 2002 I would hate to see them get into NZ. Some idiot would release them into our waterways for recreational fishing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted December 16, 2002 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 TRUE.... I would rather get a red devil/ midas rather than pay ridiculous money... cool... learnt a lot about fish these few days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midas Posted December 16, 2002 Report Share Posted December 16, 2002 I agree, just get a Midas Cichlid instead, they are pretty cool fish . However, it is not unlikely that alot of red devil/Midas cichlids for sale are now cross breeds between A. citrinellum (Midas cichlid) and A. labiatum (Red Devil) as it is fairly difficult to tell the difference with fish kept in captivity and these two have probably been interbreed in captivity for some time. However this is probably not too bad as they are so similar and closely related. They may actually hybrise in nature too in some situations when one or other of the species is low in numbers. Therefore making the ID even more difficult. A Trimac would be cool to have though. Has anyone ever seen these in NZ before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 29, 2002 Report Share Posted December 29, 2002 I just went to Wellington's animates today and in one of their display tanks they had a fish I'd never seen before that reminded me of pictures of trimacs I've seen. Unfortunately, the pics don't quite match. It was a similar shape but had spotty pinkish coloring from its mouth down under and past its gills. MAY have been a trimac, but I can only say that's what it made me think of, I don't have a clue where to start looking for a better identification. I meant to ask what it was but of course got distracted and remembered as we were leaving. Anyone been there and found out what it is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 It's a cichlasoma synspilum, the old red head cichlid. They've also got a foot and a half fire eel in that display tank, did you see that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 31, 2002 Report Share Posted December 31, 2002 Did they? No, I didn't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsvinyl Posted January 1, 2003 Report Share Posted January 1, 2003 I've raised Synspilum and they grow to be an extremely pretty fish. My male grew to 12". I fed him blanched zucchini and good quality food sticks and his colors came in really well. They don't color up right away, so you have to be patient. The synspilum has been hybridized along with other Cenral American cichlids. This is becoming a real problem. It is getting hard to know what fish have been swimming around in the family tree. I'm afraid we will reach a point where we have just one big, muddy gene pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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