Interesting Reading...

[lduncan]

I would say that statement is wrong. And so is yours. Bleaching can result in colourful corals.

Spot the bleached coral:

[reef]

However iron does seen to brighten some acros, like green,

When adding MM, my acros went supa green. due to the iron,

[lduncan]

This time with subtitles:

[lduncan]

That pinky purple looks pretty colourful to me. Guess what colour the corals turned after recovering from the bleaching?

Layton

[wasp]

The pic shows a coral that appears about 50% TN'ed, with perhaps some algae growing on it. Not sure what it is you think that proves about iron.

Reef I'll agree with your last statement, iron may add some green to acros. But as far as I know, that's about it.

[lduncan]

wasp, read the subtitles.

What do you think causes the green colour?

Layton

[wasp]

Oh my apologies, I started my last post before you put up the pic including the subtitles.

To answer you question re what causes the green colour, according to the caption it is turf algae. Why ask me?

What has any of this to do with your iron theory?

Have you figured out what form of iron you claim leached from zeovit so you can start your experiment? Again, I am very interested in this experiment.

[lduncan]

What does it have to do with iron?

No need. It has been established already that increased iron can cause zooxanthellae to be expelled:

- Metal tolerance in the scleractinian coral Porites lutea. Harland, A. D.; Brown, B. E. Cent. Trop. Coastal Manage., Univ. Newcastle upon Tyne, Newcastle upon Tyne, UK. Mar. Pollut. Bull. (1989), 20(7), 353-7.

Which states “Exposure of the scleractinian coral P. lutea to elevated iron concns. leads to a loss of zooxanthellae (symbiotic algae) from the coral tissuesâ€.

To answer you question re what causes the green colour, according to the caption it is turf algae. Why ask me?

That question was unrelated to that picture. What i mean is, why does iron cause some acro's to turn more green?

Layton

[reef]

Here some info from the Product i was using a few years ago,

Algae and most likely all symbiotic zooxanthellae that live within corals, sponges, anemones, clams etc. have a requirement for Iron along with other micro growth substances. The Iron Plus formulation provides an unchelated form of Iron, since we feel that chelation (binding of the Iron within an organic matrix) may give an unfair advantage to microalgae that is able to metabolize the organic Iron complex. Also, since the iron used is at its highest oxidation state a temporary rise in redox may be observed following its use. The other growth substances are Manganese, Cobalt, Copper and Zinc. The formulation is pH stabilized to maintain the elements in the ionic form and the concentrations of chemicals are proportioned to the concentration of iron in natural seawater. Although trace metals such as Copper are toxic to some invertebrates, this formulation contains only microquantities essential for metabolism at levels far below toxicity. As with most trace additives, their residence time in the water depends upon the biomass using them, the filtration extracting them and the water conditions that may bind them. Therefore, if trace additives are used on a regular basis it is prudent to perform periodic checks for accumulation or deficiency. A low or high limit should be established. For Iron these limits may be 0.01 to 0.05

[wasp]

Good research Reef. That is exactly why iron IMHO will cause browning of acros.

Layton, this argument is circuitous and could just keep going.

How about we end it here and you simply perform your experiment?

That way we will know!

If you can get the Zeovit effect by simply dosing iron, I will eat crow for you :lol: :lol:

[lduncan]

Hey wasp, YOU don't believe the research is valid in the context of an aquarium.

The argument is only circuitous because you refuse to see what is starting you in the face.

Zeolite leaches a LOT of iron. Elevated iron can cause bleaching. Bleaching can result in pretty colours.

I trust the research. You don't even understand it.

Layton

[lduncan]

On to part II

Metal eating bacteria use ammonia as an electron donor in the reduction of iron.

Less ammonia -> less nitrate

[lduncan]

Part III

Iron is used in many other products to remove phosphate.

Layton

[RnB]

RnB finishes pop corn and leaves theather.. I hate sad endings....

goes over to watch the RC channel, which also seems intent on self destruction.....

Layton - agree with you iron is the key element in action here

Wasp - agree with you too, just piling in iron may not get the zeo result...... it may be possible to use non zeolith iron source, but i really think the zeo surface is providing a home for the ammonium eating bacteria (they need high iron concentrations to do there thing.. nothing better then the surface of an iron leaching substance) so that side of the zeo process will not work.. and you will not see a big reduction in nitrates..... only phospahte....

now if only we knew what the other components of the zeo system where for... I think there may be other competing products being used real soon!

[wasp]

Offer still stands. My brown corals would be perfect subjects for this.

Layton

Does your offer to do the experiment still stand as you have stated? Please proceed.

[lduncan]

My offer still stands. But my offer had the condition of someone financially covering any losses which may occur. Send a written agreement and i'll do it. Don't forget coral prices are sky high ;-)

I just don't think that my corals will take too well to me dosing between 20 to 200 times the natural concentration of iron in seawater EVERY day.

Layton

[lduncan]

And and interesting Part IV:

There are other species of metal eating bacteria, which under anerobic conditions use iron as an electron donor to reduce nitrate.

Layton

[reef]

now if only we knew what the other components of the zeo system where for

Maybe to reduce iron.

[lduncan]

Maybe a strong chelator? Zeofood is apparently vitamins and amino acids.

Corals fluorescent proteins are created from amino acids.

[Brianemone]

where do you get amino acids? to dose i mean

[reef]

Zeofood is apparently vitamins and amino acids

found this on the net.

Why dose ZEOfood smell like vinegar?

Acetic acid (the same acid as in vinegar) is used as a preservative in ZEOfood. Certain ingredients like amino acids and vitamins would not be able to be kept in the solution without it

where do you get amino acids? to dose i mean

Not sure who else does amino acids , but salifert does a product called corraline amino acid

[RnB]

I think the skimmate / carbon must be choked with iron

Reef - the carbon sounds a theorectically sink for the iron/phospate molecles?

who sells zeolith apart from the stanard zeo channel... tunze????

what ones have you used?

[reef]

Good info on Zeolite.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/cav1i3/zeovit/Zeolite_Filters/Zeolite_Filters.htm

[wasp]

My offer still stands. But my offer had the condition of someone financially covering any losses which may occur. Send a written agreement and i'll do it. Don't forget coral prices are sky high ;-)

Layton

Sorry Layton, I'm certainly not going to give you money to perform your very risky experiment.

If you are trying to prove your iron theory, and you screw up and kill everything which I think is very likely, why should I have to pay?

Fact is, I knew from the beginning you would never do the experiment, as you know you will not be able to achieve the zeovit effect simply by dosing iron.

[reef]

I like this in the article. So true.

If you are tempted to try your luck with such a system, go ahead. It is a good way to an amazing aquarium. It is not much easier, cheaper, or better than several other methods that are available on the market--it is just different. It will not liberate you from proper and regular maintenance of your tank, and there is no guarantee that your tank will look like the one that made you consider trying this method! Whatever you do, be conscientious and patient. No system can cope with the lack of knowledge, laziness, and impatience of the owner.