Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Well if you cant source the food you need, you will have a feeding issue ! Please dont patronise me by telling me to chill out. I merely made a suggestion on your thread which was meant to be helpful and you chose to correct my use of english instead of either accepting or ignoring my offering graciously (which is meant to be what forums are all about). In my (humble) opinion, that was un-necessary. I was't so much correcting your english as I was using it as a way to refine my own question. Making it clear that its not advice I need as much as a source of food (in NZ). As for patronising you, take it any way you like, but given your response above, and in my own humble opnion I really do suggest you chill out. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 What does the 4 rolling eyes mean? Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Just chillin bro !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 So we cool? The plan is to: a. find rotifers and suitable green water in NZ or b. find a way to get rotifers or greenwater from the USA/Eurpoe into NZ or c. find an alternitive food source to rotifers (almost certainly live plankton, which I suspect I could collect with a fine enough net with a loooong handle?) or perhapps some storebrought remedy like the liquid fry stuff you get for freshwater. However EVERYTHING i've read so far points me towards rotifers, with sucess rates in raring clowns at 98%, which is pretty good odds. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Found this Pies. But then I think you may have seen it already. http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fus ... 03/cid/280 Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Sure we's cool. nuthin like a little grumble to clear the air !! That plan sounds good. I was reading an article inissue 13 of Marine World (i bought some back issues from Redwoods), and although its not on breeding, it was talking about a guy in the UK with a 7000l tank who changed his way of feeding from what we (nearly all do) to regular small feeds during the day, including the introduction of phytoplankton, which increased the natural level of zooplankton in the tank (and lots more). Upshot is, feeding more but little and often (the way it happens in the ocean mostly) improved fish and coral health and growth and vitality and reduced nitrates (he had 20ppm and it went down to 5ppm) depsite the total feeding increasing ! I know thats an aside, but it had a bit about how they maintained their phytoplankton culture once they had got it started. Dont know if that would be of any interest ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Found this Pies. But then I think you may have seen it already. http://www.aquaticeco.com/index.cfm/fus ... 03/cid/280 Alan 104 Bloomin hellfire ! Have you seen the price - of a big hanky ! lol. Nah, I know its a bit more intricate than cotton, but wow ! Wouldnt that be more than running a phyto-reactor ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Alan - Thanks, yes have looked at it. Did you see the price of their nets? OUCH no thanks! Interesting, this is one of the companies listed in the TFH 'clowfish' book, as an easy supply of rotifers and greenwater. I am tempted to place and order, take my luck with customs, and see how it goes. Or maybee find someone friendly in the USA to place an order, then split it and send it to me 5 times, playing the average game to get it accross the boarder. If I was going to be in the USA anytime soon I would just bring em back in my suitcase. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Pies, I wonder what would happin if you took a pump out to the ocean and, I dunno...Shoved some filter wool into the end of a funnel and had the pump sucking through the funnel/filter wool. Leave it like that for 5 minutes then squeeze the filter wool out into a container. I'm wondering if that would work well enough catching the tiny plankton and similar that they'd naturally eat? Or using some appropriately fine mesh filter. Although, someone I'm sure would have thought of that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 How much is the culture from that company? would it be worth getting several people to place orders and use the law of averages that way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Following on from Ira's comment - could you not just collect seawater and then culture it? Im not really up on it, but i recall someone mentioning that as a possible method. Am i barking up the wrong bush ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 IRA - Its so crazy it may just work. Seriously though, its so crazy, it may just work! I think I am likley to try something like this first. I have seen on TV the silk is actually very fine (used overseas by poor people to sieve micro-bad-asses out of their drinking water). So maybee silk or something similar? POMEREEF - About $35.00us for the rotifers (dried, just like brineshrimp egg) and about $10 for the algae culture. I suspect the rotifers would get through as are dry and argueably inert, the algae however is in a jelly so may be more obvious. If I knew someone in the states, I would get them to send direct to me in a model airplane kit ot similar. Bound to get in? Thing is this stuff is already here (everywhere), however I suspect MAF wouldn't take my work for it and kick my ass insted? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Following on from Ira's comment - could you not just collect seawater and then culture it? Im not really up on it, but i recall someone mentioning that as a possible method. Am i barking up the wrong bush ? That twas me. I think, the issue is one of sustainability. In that the rotifer method can get 98% success rates. There is also a dried cyclops/spirlina recepe that works, but at about 1-2% survival rate. The seawater method I read about was 'said to work' but I didn't see any stats on it. The issue with the baby clowns is a. involking a feeding response b. feeding enough of the right stuff that they actually can grow. These are key. The real problem is that the wrong algae (greenwater) will just kill (starve) the clowns. I don't know, but I guess trial and error will soon show me. Its getting close, perhaps as soon as next month I will try. All my eggs are gone now, so the clowns will lay in the next 3 days, I will watch this more closely, and try on the batch after that if time permits. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Well good luck dude. This site may be worth a try;- http://www.tmc-ltd.co.uk They are the MAJOR importers in the UK, but they have one of the most advanced hatcheries in the world from what i am told. They may or may not offer advice - there is a contact email address, and they are certainly willing to advise on practically all aspects of marine aquatics. I think there may be links to various breeding articles too. Gotta be worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 That plan sounds good. I was reading an article inissue 13 of Marine World (i bought some back issues from Redwoods), and although its not on breeding, it was talking about a guy in the UK with a 7000l tank who changed his way of feeding from what we (nearly all do) to regular small feeds during the day, including the introduction of phytoplankton, which increased the natural level of zooplankton in the tank (and lots more). Upshot is, feeding more but little and often (the way it happens in the ocean mostly) improved fish and coral health and growth and vitality and reduced nitrates (he had 20ppm and it went down to 5ppm) depsite the total feeding increasing ! I was talking to Mark today (7000 litre) who is on UR, a fourm I spend most of my forum time on. NickS from this fourm has met Mark and been to his house (last year). Great guy, impressive tank from what I have seen. POMEREEF - Yeah TMC are big in the UK, and STM are another biggie. The problem however remains the same. Once I have a culture, I am confident I can keep it up and running. If I can then 'spread it around' so several of us have cultures of rotifers and greenwater running, then if we have a crash, someone else can re-seed. They all sound very easy to keep running. The problem is simply one of sourcing the cultures to start it all off. Also in the UK, you can buy from compnaies like STM a 'plankton' subscription. Cost about 15quid a month, and every 2 weeks the mailorder you a gallon bottole of phyto/zoo plankton, which you can slowly feed to your tank. No worries about contaminating it, you just wait for the next one to arrive. Great idea, esp to get phyto/zoo (or zoo fed phyto) into the tank. We could do the same here, if only we could get started! Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 sounds like a brilliant plan. add me to the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 wasp had found someone from niwa or the like that was going to supply him a starting culture but he had to provide a more clinical environment (cause they thought coke bottles in the garage were'nt sterile enough you might want to give him an email pies and you guys might be able to sort something out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I have a pure culture of phyto (N. salina from memory). I believe that one of the North Island sea horse farms has access to rotifers, I think they breed some clowns too. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Layton - Any idea who they are, so I can give them a call? Nanochloropsis, Isochrysis or Tetraselmis are the 'good algae' for my purposes as far as I can find out. Not about N. Salina if you can get me some, I'll ask on RC if its a suitable strain. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wok Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 with regards to getting a really fine net. What about making one using nylon material? I use it to get my Brineshrimp out. of course you will need make a big net and have something strong to lift it out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted May 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I guess its how fine is the right fineness to colled plankton? And because they are microscopic how would you know? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquatopia Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 I guess its how fine is the right fineness to colled plankton? And because they are microscopic how would you know? Pie I'm thinking - kids microscope? Would it be practical to take one out with you? Or even binoculars with close focus to look into a sample of what you collect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Pies Heres a link i found ages ago when looking into the rotifers myself. http://rotifer.reed-mariculture.com/small.asp it says rotifer size varies from 200-375 microns, i've read somewhere that some people use a good quality coffee filter to hold/catch the rotifers, maybe a local kitchen utility shop will have something in stock. doing a setup myself when we move house may have 2 different types of clowns just waiting for the polymous clowns to spawn, in the past few days they've been doing the mating chase and giggles so heres hoping, already have a pair of commons breeding. All the best dude hope the above helps, keep us upto date when possible. Kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted May 5, 2005 Report Share Posted May 5, 2005 Portobello Marine Labortory collect their own plankton; and the guy you need for finding out about the rotifers is Greg from Tauranga, the only sea-horse breeder in NZ, that breeds tropicals, the H kuda. He developed his rotifers from samples in the Tauranga harbour after sorting them out under a microscope, he is also very secretive about his breeding of the s/h's and any thing to do about the process. I don't blame him, as all his stock goes to Nth America, a very lucrative market and his method of earning his living. No, for the life of me I can't think of his surname, as soon as I send this it will come back to me. I hate it when that happens. Dennis knows who I am refering to so he may post about him. Alan 104 ps. Told ya I'd remember. Leveridge Greg Leveridge Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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