Fungal Issues

[HBSterbai]

Hi. I have been having some problems with fungus in my 160 liter community aquarium. I have kept fish for many years at a time in the past, although I have never had serious problems with fungal growth. I noticed some fungus had grown on some wood that had put into the tank. It concerned me enough to remove this particular piece. All seemed well after that, however over the past six weeks or so, I have noticed that some of the fish in the aquarium have developed fungus growing on their bodies. IEVEN lost a few. I treated the tank with API Pimafix that contains Pimenta Racemosa (bay oil). The Pimafix didn't seem to help much. I Then started using tonic salt after water changes and dosed a cycle of 'wunder tonic' containing 1.5% methylene blue, 0.1% malachite green, 0.05% acriflavine and 0.04% quinine. I havn't had any further deaths since I dosed the wunder tonic product. Yet I am still somewhat concerned about the welfare of these animals, as two of my neon tetras and one of the bristlenose plecostomus have visible growth of fugus on their bodies. So my questions are what can I do now to prevent further development of fugus in the tank. As well as how to medicate or care for the fish that are still exhibiting signs of illness.

 

The Nitrite ppm (mg/L) is 0 - 0.5

The Nitrate is ppm (mg/L) is 0 - 20

[HBSterbai]

Pics of the tank

 

[Shilo]

The fungus on the wood is not the same as what is attacking the fish so it wouldn't have introduced the fish fungus into the tank.  Most newly introduced wood will develop a fungus growth for a few weeks then naturally disappear.  This wood fungus is harmless to fish.

The "fish fungus" will only develop if the fish has an existing wound or infection or they are stressed and the slime coating has been removed for some reason.  A worse alternative and unfortunately what sounds like your tank may be suffering from is Columnaris.  This looks a lot like a fungus but is actually a bacteria.   Acriflavine,  Malachite green & Furan 2  are effective treatments for columnaris.  Instead of dosing the whole tank which in the case of Acriflavine would stain your equipment or be expensive like Furan 2 I would personally use the dip method for the effected fish.

To prevent re-occurrence, up your water changes and make sure your fish are otherwise healthy and active.  

[HBSterbai]

• Thanks for the speedy reply Shilo. I had wondered about it perhaps being bacterial. Do you know if the concentration of malachite green/acriflavin in wunder tonic as stated above is adequate for treatment of Columnaris? I think my lfs stocks Acriflaine by itself at a higher concentration than the tonic. I haven't seen Furan 2 there though. 

So I'm thinking about my next step. Should I dose another course of the wunder tonic, or should I get another solution like Furan 2t ? I'm a little  daunted to try the dip method as catching the specific fish would be difficult. Especially the pleco.

[Shilo]

The lfs should stock Acriflaine in a higher concentration. If the fish are hard to catch then Furan 2 may be your best bet & will have the advantage of catching any infection on other fish that doesn't yet show up.  Have forgotten the dosage rates but I think 1 packet should be enough to treat your sized tank.   To make sure it is Columnaris and not just a fungal infection, you might try treating with much cheaper methylene blue before forking out for Furan 2.  If it effects the fluffy growth then its a fungas if not then its Columnaris.  I don't like unnecessary treatments but it could save money in the long run.

[alanmin4304]

If it is columnaris then you need to dose the whole tank as the bacteria will be all through it.

[alanmin4304]

I unfortunately cannot see much in your pics. Make sure you are not dealing with saprolegnia (actual fungus) as a result of injury from being bullied. If you increase the dose of wunder tonic be aware that too much acriflavine can kill your plants and stain things and that malachite green can kill neons. Salt will cure both but plants don't like it too much (2 teaspoons/gallon for 30 minutes. It is likely that columnaris was in the tank and most tanks and really only takes off with acid conditions and high temperatures and fungus as a result of injury.

[HBSterbai]

Thanks, Alan. The photos don't really depict much more than decor. I haven't observed any bullying, except for perhaps some of the dwarf rainbow males displaying to each other, and the odd chase down the tank. Does anyone know what is in Furan 2? Ultimatley my fish are more important than the plants, although I am fond of them. So as far as adding acriflavine goes, I'd prefer not to use products with that in it if I don't have to. I hadn't even thought of the salt harming the plants, and yet it obviously is detrimental to terrestrial plants so why wouldn't it be harmful. I have been changing 60 of the 160 liters once a week, as well as an additional 40 liter change on day 3 when i redosed the wunder tonic. Is 60 liters once a week concidered normal for a tank this size?, housing neon tetras, dwarf neon rainbows, plecostimus and corydoras.

[Shilo]

Furan 2 contains 2 forms of antibiotics - forgotten what ones but they won't effect the plants.  If I remember correctly the verdict was out whether the antibiotics in Furan 2 will effect the bacteria in the filter but if you use it to treat the tank just up the water changes for a couple of weeks after treatment.

The amount of water changed each time depends on your particular tank (size, stocking, amount feed, messy fish. effectiveness of filter etc).  Little and often is better for the fish then one big one now and again.  Best way to tell is to keep testing your Nitrate levels - create a chart of the measurements and if the level is increasing before each change then more water changes are needed.  The chart will tell you when you have it right when the Nitrate levels plateau at a low & safe level. 

 

[HBSterbai]

Thanks Shilo. I'll pick up some Furan 2 this week. I don't mind paying a little extra for a healthy tank. $70 it looks like for a course.

[Adrienne]

I may be a little late commenting.  Furan2 also carries a warning hazard in that it is known to cause cancer in mice.  Please wear gloves when handling and putting your hands/arm in the tank.  

[LeftHookGary]

If you read any of the chemicals most of them are suspected carcinogens. 

[HBSterbai]

Thanks for the info. Interesting that the carcinogen warning is covered by another less scary sticker.

[HBSterbai]

Hi again. So I ran a treatment of furan 2. At first the affected pleco lost the white stuff growing on her body. It came back though, a couple of days after the treatment ended. Also some of my neon tetras are still exhibiting signs of fungus or bacteria, and showed no sign of improvement with medication. The dwarf rainbows are looking OK in terms of appearance, but I've lost quite a few and the ones remaining are sometimes lingering just under the waterline as if they are starved of oxygen. I'm really at a loss of what to do at this stage, as I've exhausted the range of products I know that treat this kind of thing. The tank is looking pretty lousy. I'm doing water changes 1 - 2 times a week. Water quality parameters look to be within normal range with only miner fluctuation before water change.

 

Any advice on how to proceed appreciated. Thanks all

[Adrienne]

What are you running in the way of filtration, gas exchange (water movement) and are you dosing with excel or CO2?  Are the fish eating?  Are they fighting?  What are your actual test readings on the tank - pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and kH if you have a test for that?

 

 

[HBSterbai]

Hi Adrienne. My tank is a blue planet model: AA900PGD 160L. The Filter pump is model: AA590A. I read online that is does 1100L/h. Filtration media is model R-060-SC. The Filter flow is set to maximum as well as the on board aeration. There seems to be a decent amount of surface agitation although not excessive. I don't use excel or supplementary CO2. I use seachem flourish weekly for the plants. There are a lot fewer fish so I'm feeding less. They don't seem quite as interested in food, although they are eating 2-3 times a day what they can in about a minute. This doesn't apply to what I feed the corys and plecos, as the pellets are dense and take several hours to be finished. Is that too long? Maybe I have been too used to the aggression levels of cichlids. The rainbows are fighting a little bit and I'm down to 7 of them total now. None of the rainbowfish seem to have mechanical injuries though. Maybe their activity is stressing the other species out. I just did a test of water quality now.

GH: 120

KH: 40-80

PH: 7

NO2: 0.5

NO3: 20-40

[Adrienne]

Thanks for all the info.

NO2- (nitrite) - if you have any nitrite then it will be too much and will be 'burning' the 'skin' on the fish and damaging the gills eventually causing death.  Your NO3- (nitrate) is also a little high.

I suspect that the feeding is too much - once a day is sufficient or even once a day six days a week.  You could cut down on the pellets too as the waste will sink into the substrate.  The size of a fish stomach is approx. the same size as their eye.  Too much food, too much waste and your filter may be struggling to cope with it.  If ammonia or nitrite are present the fish will be coming up nearer the surface of the tank looking for more 'air' and the surface movement (gas exchange) will be providing better conditions for them.  Cutting down on the feeding will also be better for your wallet

Rainbows are very active fish normally, they like plenty of swimming space so having them 'hang' is not ideal.  They also have very tiny throats and require micro pellet sized food.  

Where to from here - I would hold back on adding any more medications to the tank and work on the water quality.  First up - to reduce the nitrite to 0 by a decent sized water change - 30 - 50% and then test again.  If still showing nitrite continue with daily changes of around 20% and if you do have any prime available add that to neutralise the nitrite.  Prime, while neutralising the effect of nitrite will still show a reading for it, so continue until the reading shows 0.  These water changes should also assist with the nitrate readings reducing.  Once your tank has shown 0 then reduce the water changes to 10% every couple of days for around 6 days and then stop and return to your usual maintenance.

Hopefully this will stop the fish deaths.  

[HBSterbai]

Hi everyone. Since I last posted I have been performing increased frequency of water changes, and have brought the nitrate and nitrite levels to zero or as close as the test will read to zero. Although I have since last post, noticed that there are some pretty high levels of aggression going on in the tank. The rainbowfish are the culprits. Because of the aggression I think the rainbows have to go. Also because I have had disease in the tank I assume I would have to cull them off and probably members of any of the other species that are showing signs of serious injury. I have heard that you can anesthetize fish with clove oil, and then put them into freezing water to kill them. Is this an acceptable or commonplace practice when culling fish?