Beginner questions

[benM]

I haven't kept fish in quite a few years but am starting to think that getting together a tropical marine tank would be a good fun project to get involved with. I've spent most of yesterday reading through lots of information about tank cycles and equipment etc. etc. I feel like there are a few holes between what I'm seeing in the beginner guides and what I'm actually planning, so I'm hoping to find a bit of help.

My intention is to get an AR980 that I've spotted for cheap at pet centre (down to $550) which states that the filter in the lid is sufficient for maqrine, but I really doubt that's true having read up a bit and I'm expecting to add a skimmer onto the side of the tank as well (sump planned for much later on, when funds allow) Would the hood filter, a skimmer (specifically the "Aqua One Proskim G220") and 2 or 3 powerheads be enough for this tank?

Sand is crazy expensive and for a 99x47cm tank it's going to cost a lot to cover the bottom properly. Is there any reason that I can't use sand from a beach? Seems crazy to pay for solmething that I can pick up for free just about anywhere so I'm assuming that there's a reason to pay, it's just not that obvious to me

The main part of kicking off the tank cycle seems to be the addition of live rock or sand, but it also seems that NZ import laws don't allow that to happen making it quite difficult to come by. Is there seomthing I'm missing here or do I need to try and befirend someone with some spare rock/sand as the only way yo start the cycle?

I'm intending to leave the tank to cycle for about 2 months before putting any livestock in there and to then start out with a pair of clowns, followed by a blue tang a month or so after and then a few anemones and some additional clown in another month or so. At that point I'll decide what other livestock I'm interested in keeping as I'll have made sure the missus has the nemo setup she's after :-p

[JJWooble]

I'm by no means an expert on tropical marine (still researching, yet to have my own setup) so others will jump in here probably and correct me  

With sand I think common practice is not to add it until the tank is fully established? I've seen a lot of barebottom set ups around too, so sometimes people don't add it at all. Re: live rock, the fastest way to start the cycle in your tank is to add some from another person yes, but you can always start it off just from scratch with dead coral rock, it just takes a lot longer and from what I heard works sort of like with freshwater, where you provide a food source on a regular basis. Apart from private aquarium owners other places to get live rock could be shops that have marine tanks, as I /think/ they sell some, so may be worth checking your local, although it can be worth starting the cycle from dead rock as occasionally live rock will pass along pest organisms --- apistasia or something, among other things-- that you wouldn't get otherwise. 

Sounds like a cool project, don't forget to post photos as it develops  

[livingart]

You are right that the inbuilt filter on the 980 is not sufficient for marine but could be used for phoshphate removers etc, the proskim is  not the most efficient skimmer in the market place but will suffice if you keep your bioload low (not too many fish)

Some like coral sand and some don't as it can become a detritus trap if not kept clean, just a shallow layer for aesthetics can work well. Beach sand is fine and can compact causing areas of anaerobic bacteria which can release toxins into the tank.

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[benM]

Thanks for the feedback guys I've decided to go for an aquareef setup instead as they come with the sump and all the other kit you need to get started, I don't see the point in starting out with something that's not going to do the job properly

re. sand, it seems your saying that any kind of sand will need to be kept clean somehow or it'll start throwing nasties into the water. Is there a good method for that? I'm presuming that the gravel siphon idea for freshwater won't be that effective, and I'd rather use something living to do it I guess, just not sure what the options are ...

[Adrienne]

Good choice not to go the AR980 (I have one but for tropical). Are you going new or looking second hand? Aquareef are good setups but the skimmer and lighting is lacking depending on what you want to do/add. 

I have the Red Sea Max C250.  Sand can be a detritus trap and algae - particularly brown and cyano develops on it rapidly.  You can gravel siphon if you have a shallow sand bed, I tend to use a fine airline and siphon it that way very carefully each water change.  Either way some sand goes up the siphon but siphoning is essential.  I am in the process of setting up a custom built marine and have decided to start off bare bottom and maybe later consider adding sand. 

Cyano develops in dead patches so good overall water movement is essential.  Wavemakers are generally added to stop the dead spots.

Bristleworms (nasty little stinging worms) live in substrate, and you can get sand sifting fish to help turn the sand over but that is once your tank is established.  In reality you are probably looking up to 7-8 months down the track before all algae issues are completely under control.

With marine tanks patience is the key.  Once the tank is cycled the addition rate should be no more than 1 coral per week or 1 fish per month.  Some fish and corals require mature tanks ie 12 months or more established.  Decide what fish you want to keep before you purchase the first one otherwise you may find the one you really really want to add is not compatible with a fish that you have added earlier and catching marines in a tank full of coral rock is a difficult task.

 

[benM]

I'm not specifically looking for new, but the options around Wellington are very limited as we seem to have 0 shops around here and trademe is the only place I can look for setups. There are a few on there but they're either the wrong size or  out of my price range. The plan for now is to get a new setup and consider it to be a starting point. I'll definitely hook up some LED's in the end as I do a bit of electronics tinkering anyway and can wire those all up through a phone app to be controlled remotely, will probably set up a web cam as well but that's a different story I'll also be upgrading just about everything in the sump, and possibly the sump itself over time, hopefully with a lot of DIY stuff rather than store bought for the electronics but store bought for the rest.

I'm also thinking that I should get a couple of cheap powerheads to start myself out but I was planning on getting those at the same time as the fisah rather than during the cycle. Going on your comments about dead spots I guess I should get them earlier rather than later so that I don't have so much filth to content with down the line.

Just wondering, are there any places that stock marine equipment in Wellington? the closest places I can find that actually hold stock are in Auckland and I can't get the places down here to do price matching with them so I'm a bit stuck in the middle at the moment ...

[Adrienne]

My reason for asking if you were looking at new or secondhand is because LivingReef, in ChCh, sells modified AquaReef tanks for what I personally think is a good price.  They do ship also.  TBH there are not a lot of actual walk into shops that stock much in the way of marine equipment any more but there are some forum members that import and sell out of their homes/trademe.  Being from Auckland myself, and the SI before that I can't help you as to what Wellington has to offer in the way of marine equipment.

You aren't likely to have cyano issues in the beginning - thats more likely to happen once corals etc begin to block the flow.  Hair algae and brown algae is something that really can not be avoided in the early months of the tank, it is part of the cycle and things like bubble algae will come in on frags or live coral.

 

Edited December 11, 2015 by Adrienne

[benM]

So, after all the  faffing around I got myseld a second hand tank, it's an Aquareef 275, the cube looking thing. It's in a bit of a filthy condition but came with a load of live rock as well, more than enough to do the whole tank and have a load in the sump for biological filtering. So far I'm well chuffed and have spent the afternoon rinsing off the kit and trying my hand at aquascaping on the kitchen side, fun fun fun

I've also ordered a load of other stuff, sand, poweheards, water test kits, lights etc etc. which has made my credit card look rather sad but I'm looking forward to the delivery  When that lot gets here I'm thinking I should start to fill the tank as everything will be ready. Now I've got the problem of getting water form somewhere. I'm thinking that NSW might be the best bet as it would le a lot less expensive and hasselous than getting a RO/DI unit but I'm wondering if there are any other options? Or, does Wellington happen to be the only city on the planet to have water that's ok for the tank coming out of the taps? Or is there some strange underground water trading scheme?

[livingart]

NSW is cheapest option, you will need RODI unit for top up water from evaporation, Pure Dew 10 litres from the supermarket will do the job.

the live rock will need to be kept live so will need water and flow to maintain the bacteria also a food source for bacteria