POWER77 Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 So I bought 21 Tropheus Duboisi fry at 1.5cm on Saturday morning and have lost 3 already. I'm sure I did everything right and was very careful, so I'm not sure it's bloat. All the water parameters are fine with temp at 26-27 and I spent an hour acclimatising them to the new tank. Haven't seen any white faeces or bloated stomachs but the last one to go was swimming in circles and spending a lot of time on the bottom on its side. The first one died within 5 hours of being in the new tank so I figured it was just stress with the move because they're so small. Sunday morning another one went and last night the third one was on its side and completely buggered so got the flush. It's definitely not the food because I'm feeding the same food the guy I bought them off was and in very small amounts (Omega One veggie micro). They hadn't been fed at all until Sunday morning, fed again this morning - but will stop now. The rest of them all look fine now and didn't notice any not eating this morning... So yeah not sure it is bloat but I'm going to panic anyway haha. Have called three vet clinics and two wouldn't write a prescription for Metronidazole, Lynfields are getting back to me. Planning to do a 50% water change tonight, dose epsom salt and hopefully Metro if I can get my hands on some. They're in a 40L Hailea, does anyone have any idea of dosage/ best procedure to follow with fry? Any adverse affects if I treat and they don't actually have bloat? Should I move the filter media to my frontosa tank before I dose to save the bacteria? Or will this just cause more issues when I eventually put it back after treatment? Should I crank the temp up to 28? I know this has come up a few times already and I have read those threads but couldn't find any info on fry with bloat. Also a google search provides many different opinions and none specific to my situation.. I would really appreciate any advice! from people who have been in this situation or keep tropheus only please TIA, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Also does anyone know where to get a prescription for Metro on the North Shore? Or a vet clinic that could send it out to me and not request to see the fish in person :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 My vet is on the north shore but made a house visit to see my fish Cost a bit . You'll also need printed documentation that describes how the fish looks when it needs metro. If yours look fine it wont be worth your time or money seeing a vet. Whats your pH compared to the tank they came from? Could it be pH shock? Temp variations? How long were they in the bag for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 seems very odd. I have found trophs to be very hardie even when small. Can you find out what parameters the tank they came from have compared to yours? I recommend feeding NLS cichlid formula and JBL novorift. i have never acclimatised any africans and haven't had any issues so doubt it's that as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 All the water parameters are fine with temp at 26-27 and I spent an hour acclimatising them to the new tank. What were the parameters of the old and the new tank? An hour isn't really that long of a time to acclimate, especially for fry, especially especially if the water is significantly different which is a major possibility for Africans. I generally do more like 2 to "Ok, I'm bored this is long enough" hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ahh that is so frustrating and kinda leaves me screwed... can't take the fish in cause they will likely die if already bloated and can't wait for them to show obvious signs of bloat cause that last one didn't last very long at all after it started swimming funny. Good point I'll check what his PH was. Obviously not an issue with the food and don't think temp would be an issue cause they were in a small chilly bin with an air stone for a bit over an hour and slowly acclimatised to the new tank. What were the parameters of the old and the new tank? Not sure about his tank, will contact him now. Thanks for the help everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ok so my pH is 7.8-8 and the old tank was 7.2-7.8. Enough of a difference to cause pH shock? Contacted 5 vets today and only one even considered writing me a prescription for metro but said I would have to bring the fish in for him to inspect. Did 50% water change with warm water this afternoon and added 1 tbsp of Epsom salt. Not really sure what else I can do now. No more dead, one was sitting on the bottom but once I tapped the glass he took off and looked fine... Hard to tell with juvies I guess. Should I dose with pimafix?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ok so my pH is 7.8-8 and the old tank was 7.2-7.8. Enough of a difference to cause pH shock? Contacted 5 vets today and only one even considered writing me a prescription for metro but said I would have to bring the fish in for him to inspect. Did 50% water change with warm water this afternoon and added 1 tbsp of Epsom salt. Not really sure what else I can do now. No more dead, one was sitting on the bottom but once I tapped the glass he took off and looked fine... Hard to tell with juvies I guess. Should I dose with pimafix?? That's a pretty wide range, if yours was at the high end and the other was at the low end. Also, I'm still not seeing why you think they have bloat? All that you've said simply implies you took a bunch of delicate young fish, poorly acclimated them to a fairly large difference in water conditions and a few died. I'm surprised it was that few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Also, I'm still not seeing why you think they have bloat? All that you've said simply implies you took a bunch of delicate young fish, poorly acclimated them to a fairly large difference in water conditions and a few died. I'm surprised it was that few. Ira, have you kept tropheus or africans in general? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ira, have you kept tropheus or africans in general? No, and yes. Though africans in general are one one of my least favorite groups of fish, barely ahead of goldfish. So, what am I missing here that implies bloat? It seems an oddly specific diagnosis for small losses introducing fish to a new tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'm not saying it's bloat, just wondered if you had any experience with them as you referred to them as delicate. Nothing delicate about them I think, certainly if compared to species of other origins. In my experience if the water parameters are some where near what they need to be about the only thing that'll hurt them is the food Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'm not saying it's bloat, just wondered if you had any experience with them as you referred to them as delicate. Nothing delicate about them I think, certainly if compared to species of other origins. In my experience if the water parameters are some where near what they need to be about the only thing that'll hurt them is the food You said they were 1.5cm. Barely more than fry, anything that young tends to be pretty delicate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 You said they were 1.5cm. Barely more than fry, anything that young tends to be pretty delicate. In my experience they aren't delicate at all, at any size and I've breed around 800 tropheus alone over the years. Of all the fish I've kept and bred the very few I have lost have been due to aggression or an out of the blue thing like one jumped out of the tank. I put this down to the food I feed, nls and jbl novorift. Other than that, they get put from one tank to another including into other peoples tanks, no acclimatizing or any of that and I've not had an issue. They get six times the tank volume per hour and a weekly 30%wc. Sometimes I leave it for two weeks, they are really easy to keep if fed the right stuff think. I regularly freight fish at 1.5cm the length of the country woo weak they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ira, I actually said a few times I'm not sure it is bloat. Just trying to prepare for the worst. My reason for concern is that it can't be the food because two went before I fed anything. This means they were stressed somehow, possibly with the pH difference or something else during the move. Before I got these fish I researched them a lot and many people say stress is a major factor that can cause bloat and seems like if a few die they all seem to go if you don't do anything about it. Three have died so I would assume the remaining 18 have been put through the same stresses. Hopefully I've just induced a bit of natural selection and the others survive. They looked ok this morning. Added more hiding places, turned lights off, did a water change and dosed with Epsom salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 it could be food, what they were being fed. last time i say this. the most important thing i think is feeding the right food, NLS and jbl novorift i believe are the best. You can choose to feed what you wish but that's what i've had great success with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted May 25, 2015 Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 the third one was on its side and completely buggered so got the flush Never flush a live fish even though they die very quickly in toilet water there last moments are agony as the choline burns their gills the right thing to do in that situation is to quickly cut of its head or squish it This insures a quick death with little pain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2015 it could be food, what they were being fed. last time i say this. the most important thing i think is feeding the right food, NLS and jbl novorift i believe are the best. You can choose to feed what you wish but that's what i've had great success with. They were being fed Omega One veggie micro and said he hadn't lost any so far which is why I decided to feed the same. Ok thanks I'll go get some jbl novorift today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted May 28, 2015 Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 That sucks sam. Sounds like it may not be bloat, if they are eating well and you don't see any white poo sorta makes me think it's not bloat. Not eating is one of the 1st signs of bloat. I would recommend gettin hold of some metro if poss even if it's not bloat now and the deaths have been bought on by stress, stress can lead to bloat. If you are feeding the same food as what they were eating before you got them I would doubt that it was the food that was causing the problem as well. I feed NLS to and think it is a good food but changing to something different now might cause more issues, i would stick with the food you have and slowly add small quantities of a new food after a couple of weeks and slowly ween them off the original food if you do want to change. That pretty much leaves ph shock from different water parameters as a possible cause and the stress of a new enviroment. Unfortunately it's pretty much guess work at the moment. I would keep up with the epsom salt and water changes being careful to make sure the gh and kh of the water you are replacing matches whats in the tank already. Have you had anymore losses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 Yeah upto 7 lost now. Doing daily 50% water changes and treating with prime/ adding Epsom also being careful to change with the same water temp. Haven't had the light on all week and still haven't fed since those first two times. I think it may be bloat as the ones that have died look swollen around the belly but hard to tell on such small fish... It's really frustrating cause they all look fine, really lively and trying to eat anything in the gravel when I'm doing water changes with the gravel vaccum then all of a sudden another one goes. I'm soaking some food in a epsom salt solution in the fridge and may feed that tomorrow night to get it right in their guts if things don't improve. I'm also worried about going too long without feeding as it may stunt their growth or result in more losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 I've got the last 4 in the freezer so will take them to a vet on sat to hopefully get some metro. Will be good to have some for the future anyway... Even if I end up losing all of this lot I'm not giving up on them and will give it another go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2015 if they are eating well and you don't see any white poo sorta makes me think it's not bloat. Not eating is one of the 1st signs of bloat. During the second water change so 24 hrs after first adding Epsom I did vacuum up a whole lot of white stringy poo out of the gravel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted May 29, 2015 Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Thats not good, stop feeding and keep up with the water changes and epsom salt. Because they are in a 40L you could try removing the infected fish when you see them. Really need to get hold of metro if poss and fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
POWER77 Posted May 29, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2015 Ok cheers mate will keep going with the water changes and salt then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasan Posted June 28, 2015 Report Share Posted June 28, 2015 Have not had any luck with doboisi fries. Tried about 20 of them. E everytime abt 5. Only 1 survived from.my first attempt Only been feeding with crushed NLS OR. Omega vegi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishfingers Posted August 6, 2015 Report Share Posted August 6, 2015 I have a few 200mg metronidazole tabs left, dated exp 2011. If anyone wants them for some beers pm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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