Changing bio-media??

[Wayne]

Just a side-track from Kellz's post,

does anyone know why it's generally recommended( on the product label) that biological media be changed every once in a while( as part of filter maintenance)??

it doesn't make sense ......as long as u rinse n ensure no obstructions etc, why do u have to replace it? can they justify the risk of ammonia problems etc?

does it progressively wear down n experience a decrease in the surface area/pores ?? or does it become obstructed microscopically with debri?? surely the bugs will take care of this.....

i reckon they're just trying to make a profit out of this...what do u reckon?

[Midas]

I think the general microbial theory with nitrifying bacterial biofilms is to have their substrate fairly clean. Otherwise they start to have competition with other bacteria that start to utilise organic matter etc that builds up and the nitrifiers run the risk of being competitivly excluded.

As far as I can tell the longer you leave filter material the more organic material will build up (even if it is only from old (dead) nitrifying bacteria) and the more growth of non-nitrifying bacteria will occur feeding on this organic matter. Therefore it is probably wise to change bio-media every now and then (of course not all at once) so that the nitrifying bacteria can have fresh substrate.

I read about this on the net somewhere once but I can't remember where.

[Ira]

You're also not going to be able to rinse all the debris off, so microscopic garbage will slowly clog the pores and decrease the amount of surface area.

[Wayne]

yeah, if a problem does indeed occur, that'll b the best explaination:

.....organic matter etc that builds up....

but what about in nature? organic debri will eventually b broken down.....we're talkin about microscopic stuff....furthermore, ammonia mayb released in the process, providing more substrate for the good bugs..

i'm still skeptical about this guys. As long as we remove the visible debri regularly during filter maintenance, i doubt changing any part of the media will do anything at all...comments? experiences? perhaps a study on this has already been done...

[Ira]

I agree, unless your tank is basically using just about all the available area, including tank gravel, every possible surface as substrate for bacteria and has just barely enough...Then the decrease in area through the clogging of the media might become a problem. However, I tend to think that anything except an extremely heavily stocked tank would have many times the capacity it needs. So you really only need to replace the media when you feel like it.

Nature is, I think, much more lightly stocked than most people's tanks. I'd make a guess that nature's stocking rate would be something like a single neon per 10 gallons, or less. It's a much more self sustaining system.

[Warren]

I've been using Effisubstrate and Siporax in my filter for seven years. Its never been changed and still seems to be working ok.

Both these media have a similar pore structure and perform similar tasks.

The reason it may still be working ok is because I have way too much media for the tank size. There is 7kg of Effisubstrate and 13 Litres of Siporax in a trickle filter for a 1200L tank. There is a 15 micron prefilter prior to the bio-tower. I have no idea what the pore size of the media is and whether or not debris smaller than 15 microns would cause a clogging problem.

I'd expect that you could effectively clean old media anyway. I clean my pre-filter cartridges with concentrated chlorine. It seems to break down everything organic and it washes away with the hose. Maybe the same thing could be done to old media. If it does indeed need to be changed, why not recycle it. It may not be as effective as new, but it may prolong the time between having to replace the media.

Also, a suitable prefilter (one better than filter wool or a filter sponge) should extend the life of media. Who knows what micron rating the filter should have is anyones guess. I'm using 15 microns and it seems ok.

[Wayne]

I clean my pre-filter cartridges with concentrated chlorine. It seems to break down everything organic and it washes away with the hose. Maybe the same thing could be done to old media. If it does indeed need to be changed, why not recycle it.

Sounds good Warren! they'll come out sparkling clean.

but yeah...i hope i'm wrong on this. imagine if the stuff was perfectly alright, n u chuck it away n replace it with immature stuff that adds extra cost to the hobby...

[john1]

HI

The LFS said that the bio-media should be changed every 6 months.

I have a Fluval 204, it has 3 trays. One of then can be halved. I have all the ceramic rings, here in OZ it is known as ceramic noodles, in in two of the halves. When it comes to replacing or cleaning, I take 1/2 tray out, wash it thoroughly, you can do it anywhichway you like, then put in the almost new-again ceramic noodles. When they are populated with bacteria I'll do the same with the other half. So at any given time I have good bacteria in my filter.

John

[Caryl]

I have a Fluval 404 and it has 4 trays (if I remember correctly - I don't clean it very often). One has filter wool in it and the others have Siporax. On the rare occasions I get around to cleaning out the filter I change the filter wool and give the Siporax a quick rinse under the tap then change the order of the three Siporax trays so they get rotated.

I can't see any point in changing the media except for the filter wool as it gets clogged and is hard to clean.

[Goldie]

I have the fluval 304 and it too has three trays - each with two compartments. One is filled with bio-max one with charcol bits and the final one is half bio mix and half charcol. The other side of the filter has four sponges - which are easy to rinse. I have been faithfully renewing both the bio-mix rings and charcol pieces. This is costly - done every four weeks. From reading this forum the bio-mix rings will now only be rinsed. Thanks guys.

Makes perfect sense when I think about it :-?

[Warren]

I Hope it wasn't a pet shop that told you to change the biomax every four weeks!

It takes 2-3 months for biomax to reach its full biological potential. Changing it every 4 weeks means it wouldn't have been doing anything at all, - well maybe a little bit during the last week. You should start to see a cleaner more health tank once the biomax starts doing its job properly. This is regardless of how clean and healthy your tanks is now.

Also, when rinsing the biomax (or any bio media) make sure you use aquarium water. Washing it in cold tap-water can and probably will destroy a large amount of the bacteria build up you want to keep.

[Caryl]

I rinse mine in warm tap water

[Ira]

Me too.

[Caryl]

I know they say you shouldn't rinse the stuff in tap water but I figure since it is the same water I put in the tank during a water change it can't do any harm. We don't have chlorine in our water.

[john1]

Hi Warren

I Hope it wasn't a pet shop that told you to change the biomax every four weeks!

Maybe I am blind, but I could not see who said 4 weeks.

It would be helpful if you answer and it is directed at someone, then use a name, so that the person concerned knows that he or she is meant.

That was not a critisism, only a helpful reminder.

John

[Caryl]

Goldie said 4 weeks, John, in the post immediately before Warren's reply to her.

It does get confusing sometimes doesn't it? Keeps us on our toes (or should that be fins?

[john1]

Hi Caryl

Thanks. So it was my eyes. Never mind. While we are on the subject of biomedia-changing, I would like to point out the reason why some LFS'

say it should be changed more often. To make more money. If the manufacturer tells you you never have to change the bio-...whatever, it would not make any money. My old Eheim cannister is a different kettle of fish. I can only talk now of my Fluval 204. Water goes first through a coarse sponge, then up through 3 trays., of which one can be halved. The to one always should contain the ceramic noodles. The other two or three, depending of model, can contain all sorts of media. Usually filterwool ist the first to get blocked. Now then. (an old australian expression). Big dirt gets trapped first in the coarse sponge (4 in the Flugal). The you might have filterwool then charcoal. Can be reversed. If you for instance take out the coarse sponge, filterwool and charcoal and leave only the bio media, it would not last long. Full of good bacteria AND dirt. Useless in one word. So if you clean out the coarse sponge, replace the filterwool and maybe charcoal in time then you should not have to clean the bio-media. All it should ever see is clean water. Bacteria is so small it will not show up as a cloggage. So, I believe it was Warren, said you don't have to clean the biomedia is right. So if you change all the other media in time, you can leave the bio-max...rings... noodles alone for a very long time.

Greeting from Australia. (A New Zealander once called it, I quote"A rathole of an offshore island". It was just after the under-arm-incident.

HE HE

John

[Caryl]

I love your word - cloggage.

I rinse the sponges but felt a quick rinse of the Siporax was in order but perhaps I will not bother. Most of the gunk gets trapped in the filter wool and sponges so you are right, not much gets into the ring things.

I vaguely remember the underarm incident as they played it endlessly on TV. Not being a cricket follower I didn't care whether his actions were 'cricket' or not I just wished they would shut up about it!

I have never been out of the country myself but my husband was a regular overseas traveller before I met him. He was in Darwin just after cyclone Tracy hit and said the place was unbelievable. I would like to visit the cooler areas of Aussie one day and enjoyed watching Troy Dann's TV programme (he is easy on the eye but would be a lot better if he kept his mouth shut. His sister does not have his terrible accent. Not as bad as Steve Irwin's though). He obviously loves his country and his enthusiasm makes you want to pack a bag and head for the airport to see it for yourself.

My uncle lives in Canberra and became an Australian citizen many years ago.

[john1]

HI Caryl

So your uncle became australian. He is game. :roll:

Australia at the moment is in dire straits. Draught. I'm not sure if I spelled it correctly. I don't mean a cool wind or a kind of beer. Just visited a German Forum. Downloaded a 3.5 meg program. Not sure at first what it was. When I installed it, my eyes watered. A wonderful database for aquariums. Up to 30. Decription of fish, plants, common names, latin names etc. also the temp, dH, pH and so forth. Absolutely marvellous. But, it is in German. I do speak, read and write in German. But, and that is a big but, most technical words are foreign to me. (lived here in OZ for the last 39 years). I would love that program in english. It is an unregistered shareware one. Maybe there is an english version thereof. Have to investigate. Let you know if there is.

BFN

John

[Caryl]

I think you mean drought, not draught. We are heading into one here too - not the whole country though. Our region has regular droughts but this one has started early.

Perhaps you could email the German site and ask (in your non-technical German) if there is a translation somewhere.

[john1]

Hi Caryl

Thanks for the "drought". I don't use the word often. My eyes are more on draught :lol: A few minutes ago I sent an email to the company to find out about the english version. 20 years ago it would have been written in compiled basic. Easy to disassemble, change the words from german to english and bingo, readable by "ozzyites" an "Nzlanderites" .

By the way, those words have just been invented by me

Till next time

John

[john1]

Hi Caryl

The author of that program sent me an email today. Sorry, no english version. Back to biological filtration. Saw Shilos post, regarding "Hamburg Mattenfilter" and he pointed out a site, which is in german. This particular page, written by a Diploma Engineer, mentioned slimy dirt in filters. It is actual food for the bacteria! So cleaning a filter like mad, is really a bad thing. From now on I'll clean my filters when the waterflow demands it. That is almost completely blocked. When you take a cannister filter apart, you see the slimy dirty filterwool and toss it out. Chances are, you are tossing good biological media out also. After all, bacteria dont live by love alone, they need food too. you might say;"Aaaagh", but think of the dungbeetle. Food for thought.

BFN

John

[Caryl]

I know not to throw all the greeblies out. The stuff that impedes my filter's water flow is the leaves and rubbish in the end of the uplift. I never get such a massive buildup inside the sponges, trays etc to have an effect.

Can't say I like the sound of the Mattenfilter (from an aesthetic point of view) but haven't had a look at the link.

As an aside, I have never believed in using all these antibacterial soaps, sponges etc in the home. It is my belief a child should get dirty (up to a point of course) so they can slowly build up a certain immunity to basic bacteria. I read somewhere recently where a scientist reckons we are not as healthy (ie resistant to germs) as our ancestors because of our penchant (throw in a little French to counteract the German ) for cleaning. Those who know me know I do not clean if I can help it as I have better things to do with my time than slave away at housework!

My mother always remembers the neighbours who lived on eother side of her house when she was a child. The ones on one side were not alowed to play outside, were kept away from other children whenever possible and constantly being cleaned - they were always sick. The kids on the other side where always outside and playing in the dirt and were as rarely ill.

Not that it has anything to do with bacteria in aquarium filters but it is a related subject!

[john1]

Hi Caryl

I share the same thoughts as you regarding A too clean an environment. But I never related it to fish. You could be absolutely right. Bring up a child in a glasshouse. The first scratch and it has every know disease. Some authors describe some fish as"hardy". What is hardy?

So it is possible that constant pampering, absolutely clean and sterile water might not be as good as one thinks. Think of evolution. Animals living in water suddely survive on land. I believe fish and other animals, like human beings can aquire an increased immune system. But not in an sterile environment. What I like on you Caryl is, you utter or speak your opinion whithout reservation. There will be people out there who might not agree, even be disgusted what you and/or I said. But it is our right to express our opinions. I dont't mind critisism, as long as it is constructive.

Keep on going telling your mind, Caryl

Till next time

John

[Ira]

I tend to think similarly about most things to do with fish. Things like, "Big water changes stress the fish! Changes in temperature stress the fish" etc. I think having the water temp a little unstable, say varying a few degrees is probably good for them. They get used to having temperature variations so that if something does go wrong, like the heater breaks, then they can handle it better. So, when I'm doing water changes(Big ones, hehe) I usually try to get the water temp close, but don't worry much if the water ends up being 25° instead of 26°. As long as the alarm isn't going off on the digital thermometer, I say it's good.