refugium and sump ideas

[chimera]

as some (www.thereefweb.com) have shown that even the return pump can kill a larger proportion of pods/mysids from the refugium

exactly what i have read too, around 95% death rate in alot of cases. so either way, water returned from sump OR refugium will mean dead pods. its the pump thats going to kill them. hence reason for fuge above tank and gravity fed as a preference.

btw, i was saying above that i think the fuge after is preferential, but if it comes to it and design does not allow for it, (IMO) not crucial. to explain my point, picture it this way:

assume fuge is before sump, how does water get from the fuge to the sump? via the overflow right - it's the only way - so thats how the pods get there too. so now picture your main tank, how does water (typically) get out? again, the overflow. of course you're hoping your main tank is full of pods too feed the fish - but a % of those pods will go down the overflow and direct into the skimmer (if the sumps first) - so essentially you're always losing pods. reason i said preferential having sump/skimmer first though, is there is (hopefully) a larger growth of pods in the fuge (time factor - allowing them to grow). this of course means if you play the percentage game, a greater number of pods should get back to the main tank alive.

[cracker]

I got too many fish....I never see pods....They get eaten before they are born!!!

[Pies]

Chimera - My refugium is loaded with pods, they crawl on the glass, allover the overflows, they are everywhere. I have mysiid shrimp swiming in and around all my rockwork, they are visible during the day and the night. People who have seen this can attest to it.

Now my tank doesn't even come close to the life that I see in the refugium. I know (educated guess) that it feeds the tank. I would be surprised if 1% of the total 'pod' population in my tank gets to the overflow before being consumed by the fish/coral.

The refugium (latin for 'place of refuge') can't be providing a very good service if you are going to skim everything out before it hits the tank.

Now I know you want it to be OK, but it won't be. It makes no sense to have the skimmer after the refugium. The skimmer will be removing the pods and plankton (for lack of a better description) from the refugium before it hits the tank. This is a poor design concept and the question would be is there any point in having a refugium if you are going to skim all of the goodness it does out.

Don't put your skimmer after your refugium.

Pie

[chimera]

Just as an aside, an in-sump skimmer would make a difference to this as not all water passes through it. So a percentage of pods would get passed back to the main tank. Not disagreeing with you Pies, just giving a different perspective.

[Control]

Refugiums should not go through the filter system. It defeats the purpose.

It should be a closed loop with the tank.

You can put it anywhere you like. On top is best because of the type of pump.

If you have a refugium you must use diaphram pumps.

Aaron.

[chimera]

depends on the purpose of the refugium (taking the word "refugium" in the general sense of the word), if for nutrient export then prior to sump, if to feed the main tank, then after the sump. see previous page post on methods.

i guess the perfect setup would be two fuges, first fuge having caleurpa, then to a sump with skimmer, then to sand/LR fuge for pods and returned. theory being the nutrients from the main tank are taken up by caleurpa, anything else is skimmed, good water passed to LR where pods are, which get fed back to main tank.

[Pies]

i guess the perfect setup would be two fuges, first fuge having caleurpa, then to a sump with skimmer, then to sand/LR fuge for pods and returned. theory being the nutrients from the main tank are taken up by caleurpa, anything else is skimmed, good water passed to LR where pods are, which get fed back to main tank.

Because of the turnover of water through the system, it wouldn't matter if you had 1 or 2 in that order? The only important aspect would be that the live foods get to the tank. All of the 'nuitrients' will be skimmed/uptaken by as the water cycles. Wouldn't matter if the 'nutrients' did a couple of laps before being sucked out.

My system works as you describe it above, almost. except out of the 1 sump (nutrient export/refugium) half the wate travels through my skimmer, the other half straight into my dedicated refugium before returning to the tank.

When I move sumps, half of all display water will drop into the skimmer the rest into the refugium/nutrient-export sump, then into refugium/sump then return to the tank. I think this is the optimal setup and what I am going to do when I move everything.

Pieman

[Ira]

I've heard just as many people saying that most pods are totally unharmed by going through a pump's impeller. I seriously doubt it kills as many as 95% of the pods. And if it does kill a few of them then they're bristleworm food.

[Pies]

I agree with you Ira, no doubt some will die, but then its either die in the pump or a few seconds later in the tank Life as a pod is a dangerous affair frought with peral at every corner.

Pie

[chimera]

seriously doubt 95%? but you dont know... but then neither do i... apparently eggs are unharmed so a good thing getting those to the main tank as they'll eventually hatch. i wonder how you could test something like that...!!!

When I move sumps, half of all display water will drop into the skimmer the rest into the refugium/nutrient-export sump, then into refugium/sump then return to the tank. I think this is the optimal setup and what I am going to do when I move everything

good plan. i think splitting flow is a good thing if its planned well. sounds like you're on track. when are you getting the rest of your garage sorted?

[Pies]

Its all happening now. Its a 3 stage project. Stage one is build 1 wall, plaster and sand. Then stage 2 is move the sump, finish plumbing. Stage 3 is build the other wall, paint and seal.

Currently the wall is up, bolted to ground-floor and fixed to cealing. Door has been hung. Bats are in all 3 walls (1 wall is absent so I can get the sump in). Electricy wiring is all there, just needs connection and RCD installed. Also am adding an 'Expel air' to avoid condensation/moisture build up. Have about 1/3 the Gib on the walls.

Plan is to finished gibing, plastering and get a sealer coat of pain on by the end of this weekend. Then plan to move the sump in approx 3 weeks. Am getting another sump made to fit undet the old 740 litre tank, with an overflow hole being drilled through the wall and going outside so there will NEVER be another drop of water on the floor again (have flooded the garage a few times).

Its all happening.

Pie

[Ira]

get a sealer coat of pain on by the end of this weekend.

A coat of pain? So that's where the blood, sweat and tears saying comes from...

[Brianemone]

im stuggling to think of how to add an over the tank refugium and have it still look like its part of the system (ie not ugly)

[Control]

You don't have to put it above your tank

Aaron

[Brianemone]

do you need baffles before the skimmer?? most people seem to have them

so water comes into sump through one set of baffles and into skimmer and through another set of baffles into return pump

any thing else needed in there?? (other than the heater)

[Brianemone]

another Q when i order the tank what size should i get the holes drilled for over flow return (and maybe closed loops)????

i should really go looking for the things that go in the holes (bulk heads no?) and get them drilled to that size so i guess the question is what are the best type to get and what size piping should i have??

[Drifty]

i have just had 2 tanks drilled by 2 different tank makers, both only had a 32mm hole saw. I am sure you could get it cut somewhere else though. I have used a 25mm hansen though hull fitting which fit perfectly in the 32mm hole.

drifty

[Aquatopia]

Hi folks

Couple of questions -

Whats DURSO and Whats STARBOARD EQUIVALENT ?

Cheers

As far as the refugium goes - what are views on another section for miracle mud and/or caulerpa (the latter being regularly harvested to remove what they absorb) ??

[Brianemone]

ill be getting my tank through greg (tanks4u) he made Cookie extremes tank which is a 8 footer and i beleive he drilled it for him as its got the overflow built into it

my main concern is that if the pipe i use is too large for the overflow then will it make alot of noise of gurgling as the return is not pushing back up enough to fill the overflow

[Control]

The baffles in the refugium are there to stop eggs etc before they get out.

You would be amazed at what gets stopped by them.

Aaron.

[Brianemone]

The baffles in the refugium are there to stop eggs etc before they get out

not to call you out on that, but what the cabbage are you on about.

anyway back to the topic should i put baffles before the skimmer in the sump, from what ive seen almost every does have them. is it tostop the micro bubbles entering the skimmer motor or is it just as a part of a series of baffles to stop them returning into the main tank and maintain water levels??

[Aquatopia]

Hi

I dont want to feel like im "butting in" to this thread, but:--

Couple of questions -

Whats DURSO and Whats STARBOARD EQUIVALENT ? (as mentioned above)

Cheers

As far as the refugium goes - what are views on another section for miracle mud and/or caulerpa (the latter being regularly harvested to remove what they absorb) ??

[Brianemone]

for stuff like that its usually quiker to get an answer by googleing it

starboard is like a chopping board material that you put on the bottom of your tank if your going barebottom to prevent the glass getting broken if rocks fall down and to give it a white apperance (clean sand)

durso's standpipes are what youll see in most peoples overflows built to deaden the noise that would come from a straight polle with water going in it

[Aquatopia]

Thanks Brian - I hate using google - i always find that when its explained by "people" who have read the context of an enquiry you get a better answer and less confusion, but thanks for the tip. As far as the standpipe goes (oops - there goes the thunder and lightning again - what a horrible day) - do you have a pic of one? Yours maybe? No worries if not - maybe thats one for google. I may give that a go.

[jetskisteve]

www.DursoStandpipes.com