Matt Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Hi All, I am experiencing unexplained deaths in my established 250l planted tank over the last month and it all seems to have started when I began using flourish excel to get rid of BBA. Previously I had just been using Flourish and Flourish Iron and had no problems. Tank before using Excel 2 Keyhole Cichlids 4 Blue Rams 7 Rummy Nose 2 Jullii & 2 Schwartzi Corydoras Breeding Pair of Bristlenose Catfish (babies in a separate tank) 2 Black Phantom Tetras Fluval 404 and Aquaclear 150 filter with protein skimmer attachment. Temp was 27 and PH was 6 due to peat filtering, all fish happy and healthy and breeding. I purchased 9 baby angelfish and 4 Adult Congo Tetras at the same time as I started dosing Flourish Excel. As per the LFS ‘s instructions I dosed Flourish Excel at the normal rate every second day for a week and then started double dosing a week later. The next day after double dosing I woke up to 2 angelfish, 2 rummy nose, 1 blue ram and a black phantom dead. I did two 25% water changes of the next couple of days and then began dosing flourish excel at 1 capful/5 ml every second day. Over the next couple of weeks I lost my male Bristlenose, 1 Black Phantom, 1 Rummy Nose, 3 Angelfish and 1 Blue Ram. The fish didn’t appear to have anything wrong with them, no missing scales or red gills etc just upside down and dead. I tested for ammonia after each fish loss and all tests came up with none showing. I also did a 25% water change each time. Two days ago I did another 25% water change and added Flourish and Flourish Excel and the next day I found another Angelfish upside down in the plants but still marginally alive and yesterday another Rummy Nose dead upside down in the plants. Fish left as at 12/4/05 4 Congo Tetras spawning daily 4 Angelfish 4 Rummy Nose 4 Corydoras Female Bristlenose 2 Keyhole Cichlids 2 Blue Rams Temp 27 ph 6.5 due to more frequent water changes. I know that 9 Angels and 4 Congos is a lot to add at once, but my Girlfriend really wanted the Angel’s and I wasn’t leaving without the Congo’s. The guy at the LFS reckoned I could easily add more but I didn’t think that was very good advice so I didn’t follow it. I reduced feeding and did extra water changes to compensate plus the tank is very heavily planted and never showed ammonia the whole time. Has anyone else had a similar experience with Flourish Excel, could it be due to my low PH or dosing both Flourish and Flourish Excel?? I am discontinuing using Flourish Excel and will just use flourish for now. My plants have been growing really well and the water is crystal clear. Any ideas?? I searched the net and found others have had similar experiences. http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/m ... 00076.html http://richpoorman.com/aquaria/maintank/weblog/ http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/discusfaqs.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Sorry to hear that Matt,bet ya wished you had put up with that blasted BBA. Don't add any more until the crisis is gone. I wonder if there was a ammonia spike with the BBA dieing off, or if the chemical "uncycled" the tank causing the same thing. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 I also use both of these products regularly, I've never had any problems with them and my ammonia is always 0. Maybe it was another factor - do you feed them bloodworms? There was someone a while ago who lost a few of his fish to what he thinks were bloodworms that had been refrozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Thanks Alan, I do wish I had just put up with the BBA. I really hate losing fish. The funny thing is that the BBA hasn't actually gone, it started to disappear when I was dosing daily but has since gone back to normal. To make matters worse I came in to work on Monday to find that the cleaners had knocked over my DIY CO2 at some stage over the weekend and filled the tank with sugar and yeast :evil: :evil: . I am still trying to get it all out of the tank even after 3 50% water changes and vacuuming the film off everything, I think I am going to have to completely drain the tank. I lost a few plants but at least my Female Cockatoo Cichlids survived though It doesn't rains it pours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Hi Hummingbird, Thanks for your reply. I do feed bloodworms occassionally and also Live Mosquito Larvae but I have been feeding these for a good six months with no problems. I stopped feeding both a couple of weeks ago after the loses as I thought it might be the Mosquito Larvae, but I am still losing fish. I seem to lose fish after a water change and adding fertiliser so I was thinking it is either the fertiliser, the water or my water conditioner, but I use the same water and conditioner on my tank with baby bristlenose with no problems :-? . The Flourish Excel is the only thing that I have changed from my regular routine and that is when I began having problems and this is the only tank I use it on which leads me to believe that it may be the cause of my problems. Do you dose your Flourish and Flourish Excel at the same time? What rate are you dosing at? Thanks for your help, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 I use Flourish bi-weekly and Flourish Excel every other day, both at the recommended dose, in most of my tanks. I had a problem with BBA for a while and I double-dosed flourish excel until it cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatBrat Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Are you using tap water or rain water for your water changes? Cheers, CatBrat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Tap water with water ager added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 I've just started using Flourish Excel to get rid of BHA (what's BBA?) in my 215 litre & two 90 litre tanks. I've been double dosing according to the instructions every second day since the 5th April and so far the only problem I've had is cloudy water in the 215 litre tank. I don't know why the water is cloudy in this tank and not the others but I suspect it's because of the courgettes I've been giving them a lot lately - I never thought of courgettes causing the cloudiness until I read on here that someone (was that you Snowman?) always soaks them first! Mind you they don't last that long, next morning there's usually only the knawed skin left! I wondered Matt if maybe it was because you are using Flourish AND Flourish Excel together but I see on the container they reckon it is safe to use with all of their products. It seems very strange that some people have no problems with Excel at all and yet others are losing fish by the dozens - IF it is the problem then there must be something else either in your tank or being added to it that we don't have/use that is reacting with it - I wonder if it's possible to work out what it might be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 The only other product I treat my water with is Aqua plus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 I've been using the Flourish Excel double dose but found that the LFS recomendation of dosing every 2 days did nothing so i do a double dose every day and thats in the Gold Ancistrus tank with 3 day old fry with no probs (other than the price of a big bottle) . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 I know a lot of people will prob dissagree but, why dose your tanks up with all sorts of chemicals and nutrients? If ya bba isnt out of control just leave it, a little bit of algae makes a tank look natural. I hate having to put anything into my tank bar water, had to dose my tank for white spot the other day ahhhh what a nitemare. I know that a lot of plants benefit from added nutrients, but my bro, who hardly never cleans his tank, has more success than anyone i know with plants,must be all the fish waste.He never seems to loose any fish either,must be because he dosent muck around to much with water chemistry. Thats just my thoughts, keep it natural Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 I know a lot of people will prob dissagree but, why dose your tanks up with all sorts of chemicals and nutrients? If ya bba isnt out of control just leave it, a little bit of algae makes a tank look natural. I hate having to put anything into my tank bar water, had to dose my tank for white spot the other day ahhhh what a nitemare. I know that a lot of plants benefit from added nutrients, but my bro, who hardly never cleans his tank, has more success than anyone i know with plants,must be all the fish waste.He never seems to loose any fish either,must be because he dosent muck around to much with water chemistry. Thats just my thoughts, keep it natural Because the BBA covers the plants to the point where they all start dying, i prefer the look of plants to BBA, normal algae can look natural but BBA just looks crappy. How much BBA do you have in your tank ? You say keep it natural but then say you added chemicals for white spot so you added chemicals to get rid of something you dont want in your tank, exactly the same for BBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachy Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Because the BBA covers the plants to the point where they all start dying If ya bba isnt out of control just leave it I have very little if any bba in my tank, but dont mind a bit, but i only have a java fern in my tank not fancy plants, so i dont need to add fertilizer.You say keep it natural but then say you added chemicals for white spot so you added chemicals to get rid of something you dont want in your tankonly because i had to, hence the ahhhhhhh.Nothing else goes in there. This site may help people with a Bba problem http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_algae.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawn Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Matt - I had a thought while I was eating my dinner - you did note that the FIRST dose of Flourish Excel is about five times as much as the second and subsequent doses I suppose? Or have you been putting in that same first dose for all of them ie 1 capful for every 40 litres instead of every 200 litres? I nearly didn't read it properly so thought maybe you'd done the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 I'm dosing at 5ml per 100ltrs (double normal strength) nearly finished my current bottle so going to try to dilute the phosphate with daily water changes (breeding GBA get water changes every second day anyway).I'vehad a Green-X in for over a week now (supposed to remove phosphate) but it hasn't made any difference, got to sell some more GBA to buy some Phosphate Remover as suggested by Warren : -)> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted April 13, 2005 Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Water changes = free(ish) phosphate remover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted April 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2005 Hi everyone, Thanks for the replies. Dawn, I did the first dose at 1 capful per 40 litres on a Saturday and then dosed 1 capful every day for the rest of the week, and then I dosed two capfuls on the following Saturday and that is when I lost 6 of my fish. I suspected it might be the Flourish Excel so I went back to dosing one capful a day but continued to lose fish. I am using Blue Circle Water Ager to treat my water as I have done for over 10 years with no troubles, maybe this is reacting with the Flourish Excel? I occasionally use Stress Coat as well but haven't in the last few months as I ran out. I am adding no other chemicals to the tank apart from Flourish 1-2 mls twice a week and Flourish Excel 1 Capful every second day (stopped now), and treating the tap water with water ager at the recommended dose of one drop per litre plus an extra couple of drops just in case . Cheers, Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.