David R Posted September 12, 2014 Report Share Posted September 12, 2014 Slightly more serious thread now, in an attempt to breathe some life back into the place! I have four L190 Panaque nigrolineatus, and two of them have quite a different "look" from the other two. I'm interested to see what else is out there in the NZ marketplace... The "thin stripe" look with narrow stripes of light and dark; Fish #1 #2 And the "other" look, more of a green base with wide gaps between the dark lines, that are broken and uneven; #1 #2 Side by side the difference is obvious (open the pic full size). Thoughts? The arrangement of their teeth shows they are certainly L190 (or not L27, at least). The armbrusteri/L27 group seems to be split into many different "types", is P. nigrolineatus equally as varied but nobody bothers differentiating as they're old and boring compared to the hot new L27? Anyone else got anything similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 very nice royals and I agree the two types do look quite different. My female that I used to have looked like the second type. I would imagine that different waterways have slightly different forms and the two types may be from different regions. Have you seen the Lujan et al's Panaque revision paper? It talks a little bit about colour variation in Panaque nigrolineatus, including a slightly different colour morph from the upper Guaviare River in Colombia. Individuals from the upper Guaviare River in Colombia with coloration shifting from stripes as juveniles to irregularly shaped light brown to gray spots on dark brown to black base color as adults. This color morph is common in the ornamental fish trade ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Those are awsome :gpo2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjansss Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Those are awsome :gpo2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Can we get the L27 here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Can we get the L27 here? I've seen some very impressive standard royals, including some great ones that David has, and some very nice L191's but I dont think we have L27's in New Zealand. I love to see one though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Dam! Cause with my new tank im looking for some nice plecos :nfs: any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 there is nothing wrong with standard royals if you have the tank space. They are one of my all time favourite plecos and a stunning adition for a very large tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Agreed, they are cool plecos, messy, but cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 there is nothing wrong with standard royals if you have the tank space. They are one of my all time favourite plecos and a stunning adition for a very large tank. Would 600l be large enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Yep thats a good sized tank and would be fine for an adult royal but they are very messy. They create a lot of topsoil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Have you seen the Lujan et al's Panaque revision paper? It talks a little bit about colour variation in Panaque nigrolineatus, including a slightly different colour morph from the upper Guaviare River in Colombia. Yes Mats sent me a copy of the paper when I posted about the ID of the Fish #1 of the "other" look about a year ago, I must admit I still haven't got around to reading it completely yet. Better print it off at work some time! The form you mention with "irregularly shaped light brown to gray spots on dark brown to black base color as adults" nearly sounds more like L330? Guess I need to read the paper in full... I agree completely that while we have some L190s that are nicer than others, I haven't seen any confirmed specimens of L27 here in NZ. As I said to Cam the other day while discussing a wholesaler who is currently offering L191 as L27, L27 turning up in a shipment of L190 would be like finding a genuine Rolex at a fake watch stall... fishybuisness; 600L would be fine for a L190 or L191 royal, but bear in mind they are slow growing and messy, and won't do well if you're feeding a high protein diet to the other fish in the tank. I took these pics nearly a year ago to show how much mess four ~20cm royals can make in a week. This is about 2/3 of the sawdust siphoned out of the settling chamber of my sump. I lost about 1/3 over the side of the wool while it was siphoning, then there's the stuff that went thru the settling chamber and into the foam, and the stuff that didn't make it over the overflow! I can't imagine the mess a 2' monster like I posted in the other thread would make... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Wow okay maybe not then.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Excuse my amazing photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 They are a few other big pleco options if you are put of by the mess. If you after a cool but stroppy pleco for your tank then leopard cactus plecos (L114) are another cool option (my avatar is one of my adult females). They are largely carnivorous so they do well on a high protein diet but they do eat a fair few algal wafers as well. However they do have a bit of an atitude. Anyway small ones are on the importers lists at the moment. If you want a largely vegetarian option with less mess then you could go for a gold nugget or a green or gold phantom. And there is also nothing wrong with a large redspot or goldspot pleco in a tank that size. However all big plecos eat a lot and produce a fair bit of waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myfishybuisness Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 They are a few other big pleco options if you are put of by the mess. If you after a cool but stroppy pleco for your tank then leopard cactus plecos (L114) are another cool option (my avatar is one of my adult females). They are largely carnivorous so they do well on a high protein diet but they do eat a fair few algal wafers as well. However they do have a bit of an atitude. Anyway small ones are on the importers lists at the moment. If you want a largely vegetarian option with less mess then you could go for a gold nugget or a green or gold phantom. And there is also nothing wrong with a large redspot or goldspot pleco in a tank that size. However all big plecos eat a lot and produce a fair bit of waste. I used to have a L114 i loved him, i have been thinking about getting some, but they can be quite agro so do you think i could get away with 3 in a 600l plus a few other plecos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 I used to have a L114 i loved him, i have been thinking about getting some, but they can be quite agro so do you think i could get away with 3 in a 600l plus a few other plecos Three should be fine in your tank, even as adults, but provide plenty of hiding places and line of sight barriers, particularly when they start getting big. The males will grow to over 20cm but the females seem to stay a little smaller (mine are just under 20 cm). If you grow them up together that will help. I introduced a large male a while ago and there were several scraps but they settled down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flatfish Posted September 16, 2014 Report Share Posted September 16, 2014 Hi David, the Panaque revision is a really nice paper and once you see pics of a goldline royal (Panaque armbrusteri) its pretty obvious we dont get them here - well at least I haven't seen one here. They are stunning. My big female I used to have wa ssold as a goldline royal but clearly wasn't. yeah my point on the other form was just to highlight there may be a little going on with royals, i.e. possibly other unrecognised species or forms. Some royals we have here get more of a spotted pattern on their back half when they are large but it doesn't cover the whole body. I agree completely that while we have some L190s that are nicer than others, I haven't seen any confirmed specimens of L27 here in NZ. As I said to Cam the other day while discussing a wholesaler who is currently offering L191 as L27, L27 turning up in a shipment of L190 would be like finding a genuine Rolex at a fake watch stall... I agree. A true goldline royal would cost a fair bit more than a L191 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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