Skimmer collection survey

[Fay]

I have a Queen that pulls 500mls to 600mls weekly

Tunze that pulls 25ml in two days with the queen off (75 TO 100ml) WEEKLY

Now I am buying Jetski's Deltec 850 Which he is bringing on Saturday so I want to sell the Tunze but not if it is'nt preforming I don't want to rip any one off?

CAN YOU PLEASE SAY WHAT SKIMMER YOUR RUNNING AND AVERAGE COLLECTION OVER A WEEK

[AW]

Tunze Skimmers are farily well known to not pull as much out, and what they do pull out due to the Plankton friendly"contact" skimming principal that Tunze employs.

Their are DIY fixes on some of their skimmers which elimnate this passive contact and improve "performance" quite a bit.

My attitude to skimmer having owned an

Amiracal Typhoon

Red sea Berlin

XL Red sea Berlin

Deltec 1250s

Deltec AP850

Last Reef Tank Setup was a 1400mm x 600mm x 500mm with sump.

It nice to own a quality skimmer, the AP850 is a fantastic, the XL Berlin perfomed just as well. I believe they pulled out equal amounts of junk from my tank but I'm only guessing as I never measured quantities.

Not sure if any of this helps you, but if your trying to decide a price on your skimmer, I would base it on 1/2 to 2/3 Retail Price.

Cheers

Andrew

[RnB]

deltec TS1060 and a H&S 2 x 1060 unit....

the H & S pulls out maybe 1-1.5L per week, the deltec about 1/2 that.

But they are two differnt beasts, the H & S is rated way higher then the Deltec in tank size its capable of skimming.

[chimera]

Fay, RnB - are you saying here you are all running two skimmers? why not one big fattie instead? or are you saying these are the models you have owned?

[Fay]

Chim: Thats the plan, But I have a buyer for the Tunze and don't want to pass on something that doesn't skim enough<> I'm sure it could be DIY fixed but I don't have that Knowledge.

[RnB]

I have been running two skimmers over the last month

Got the H&S off zeo and added it to the sump to compare them side by side.

I have looked at the needle wheel on the H&S and the needle wheels on the Deltec, there is little difference. I think the same size deltec = the same size H&S in ability to skim. more pumps = better skimming.

I have plans for the H&S skimmer, prob not on my small 500L system tho.

Peter

[suphew]

Hi Fay, what sort of queen is it? I've got one of those little queen turbos that I got given but never plugged it in cause I didn't think it was worth it.

I run a berlin (now waiting for the flaming) I'm getting 100-150mil per week from my approx 400L setup.

[Pies]

I had an AP850, it now belongs to NickS on this board. Great skimmer.

I upgraded to the AP902, which is basically a larger 2 motor model of the 850.

I get about 1.2 litres of dark stinkly skimmate a week. When I clean it on Sundays it has about 4mm of thick fatty gunk on the inside of the neck. yuck.

Good luck with the skimmer Fay, I am sure you will be happy with it, everyone else who owns them has been.

Steve - What are you doing about skimming on your tank?

Pies

[chimera]

i think any deltec skimmer just seem to be awesome. i stripped every removeable part of my TS1060 down last night, cleaned it out and reassembled. i siliconed back up some broken supports, superglued a broken piece on one of the pumps and flushed the whole thing clean. wow what a difference! the whole thing just sounds better let alone running better.

still, when you see the skimmer in bits on the floor, it's hard to justify where the cost goes in them!

[JoeBlog]

I'm using this DIY skimmer

It is ugly as hell, but pulls out between 1 and 1.5 liters of nasty dark skimmate per week. My tank has a fairly low bioload, but I do feed them well.

I would love to have a big Deltec, but unfortunately can't really afford it right now, so this will have to do the job in the mean time.

[cookie extreme]

if it works well why fix it? just to look good?

intereting design looks like an old diving cylinder or similar.

[TM]

nice steve

Why pay when that is doing the job.

Sell them on trademe!!!

[chimera]

would be interesting to put a deltec on there for a week steve and see if it does as well! diy and ugly doesnt mean its worse!

[Brianemone]

put some duct tape on it just for kicks

[Fay]

Suphew Wrote

Hi Fay, what sort of queen is it?

The queen is a TS-3000

[Aquatopia]

Deltec skimmers rock - the AP850 is an awesome model. I had one on my setup in the UK because a mate swore by them. I never got round to using it cos i decided to move to NZ here. Sold the bugger and wish i hadnt - had tunze circulation pumps and controller too.

Interestingly, there is a video out by Paul Talbot of syndey's Majestic Aquariums, and he advocates not using skimmers on reef aquaria if you use live rock as your biological filtration. Since live rock will both nitrify and then denitrify because of its aerobic to anaerobic ratio, more waste is handled and thus a skimmer is not needed (in his opinion). His preference is to remove the cup from the skimmer and use it simply as an oxygen reactor !!! He claims that the benefits to water quality by not using a skimmer in such circumstances are achieved because the trace elements get to stay in the water rather than being skimmed out. I can see his point, but i bet there are plenty who would argue otherwise.

Your opinions on this would be interesting and welcome.

[lduncan]

The problem i have with skimmerless tanks is where is all the phosphorous going?

Sure nitrates are fine, they are reduced and released as nitrogen gas which rises as bubbles escaping to the atmosphere.

The problem with phosphorous is that it never gets reduced into some form which is self removing. It sits there being processed between many different forms. (And is why sand beds really are a phosphorus time bomb)

I'm yet to be convinced that macro algae in realistic quantities has the ability to use phosphorous fast enough to stop this.

Skimmers are a physical means of exporting phosphorous.

Layton

[Aquatopia]

Layton - Cheers - that raises a question not addressed specifically by Paul Talbot. He claims his phosphates are always practically zero and im not sure why because he doesnt mention the use of stuff like ROWAPHOS either (which really is flavour of the month in the UK at the moment). Would you consider ROWA a better alternative to skimming on the grounds it doesnt take out trace elements too? i can see we will have some interesting chats when you are less busy in a week or two. Incidentally - im not claiming to be a guru - just posing different ideas and seeing what people think. Best way to gather information and knowledge in my book.

[lduncan]

Would you consider ROWA a better alternative to skimming on the grounds it doesnt take out trace elements too?

No, iron oxide (virtually all phosphate removers) also bind things other than just phosphate, apparently including other trace elements. Then there are issues with corals acclimating to iron levels as well.

Skimmers also remove other unwanted molecules other than just phosphate. Of course they also remove some things which may be beneficial.

I would probably not consider running a tank skimmerless in the foreseeable future.

Layton

[Aquatopia]

Hi Layton

So are you saying you would not use ROWA? i guess so. And yet i have seen some of the most amazing reef setups where it is used extensively. I know guys who literelly would not be without it.

How do you overcome the stripping of trace elements by a protein skimmer? It would be interesting to know how fast the additives are removed - for example - do u reckon an efficient skimmer like say the Deltec AP850 - might take 100% of additives on the first pass? On the grounds that most tanks are cylced several times an hour ? Or would it take several hours or days to remove them?

i guess that also raises the question - what additives (if any) do you use? Maybe none. Gary from Paraquatics in Brighton (UK) never bothers with them and he has been profiled in several magazines over there.

Im beginning to think its just a case of "whatever works for you" sort of thing aye !

[chimera]

I'm working on the principle that your regular water changes will replace trace elements. Hence why maintenance is crucial. I dont dose anything from a bottle, although do have calcium reactor (with a layer of magnesium chips) and kalk dosing - but they only touch the surface when it comes to the required minerals (strontium etc) required.

[lduncan]

I may consider using it if I had problems with phosphate, but I never have. Never been detectable in my tank.

Trace elements are replaced through water changes. Different dissolved substances have different affinities to skimming, depending on their molecular structure, and polarity. Then whether the molecule is in the correct orientation to attach to the surface of a bubble and if it ever bumps into a water molecule is a statistical process. Don't know quantitatively what percentage of something a particular skimmer will remove in one pass, it's just too variable, to my knowledge no one has ever bothered experimenting with this.

Additives - well kalk and that's about it. I will be adding amino acids once my tank is permanently set up, i think it causes water borne bacterial blooms which feed corals which may improve colouration and increase growth rates.

Layton

[Control]

My diy skimmer pulled about 1.5 +.

I must put it back on my main tank and get rid of the toy thats on there.

It is ugly as hell, but pulls out between 1 and 1.5 liters of nasty dark skimmate per week. My tank has a fairly low bioload, but I do feed them well.

I would love to have a big Deltec, but unfortunately can't really afford it right now, so this will have to do the job in the mean time.

If you are capable of making a skimmer that can do 1.5 a week, why would you ever want to bye one that does the same.

Try to improve your design, you could come up with something even better still.

[Control]

Phosphorus is used by plants and algae as phosphate which is then comsumed by animals.

The problem is to find a balance in a small inviroment.

The method with the least impact on the system for removing Phosphates is an algae turf scrubber because the majority of what the algae comsume is not wanted.

Instead of the algae being eaten by animals it is removed sometimes up to twice a week.

Skimming is the next best thing and I personaly find they work well together, dispite the fact that the skimmer is stripping the good stuff as well.

Aaron.