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Hybrids... like em or dnt like em?


Daz

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Hey guys. Im quite new to the forum and you gus have been helping me out alot.

I appreciate this very much!

by posting this topic on hybrids I am not in any way trying to cause an argument or anything like that just want to know peoples opinions on this subject. :bggrn:

I know this is a bit of a touchy subject :slfg:

any way. I love them, some of the most beautiful fish I have owned have been hybrids.

Come on who doesnt like ob's.

Dont get me wrong I would not breed hybrids then sell them off to unsuspecting victims.

but If it happens I do keep the fry and raise them to adults and keep the males for show.

you never know what awsome colours youll get.

so thanks guys and leme know your thoughts

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I like and don't like hybrids for various reasons.

My main reason for not liking them is they can resemble pure fish and often get sold as pure fish or even sold as hybrids and then someone else down the road decides they are something else (usually because they resemble one of the parents after a few generations of breeding). It is all well and good breeding a few hybrids for a display tank and culling the rest and keeping a few males but what happens to these once you are done with them? We have such a small gene pool of good fish in NZ it would be a shame for hybrids to be introduced in to these lines and ruin then.

There are also many who through simple ignorance/genuine lack of knowledge or even commercial gain produce hybrids call them pure fish or some random name off google images and that is how we get many "new" and "rare" species in NZ.

I do like some of the "acceptable" man made hybrids - ob peacocks and dragonsblood/gold/albino peacocks for example, these fish are very distintive and wont be easily confused with "pure" lines.

But then again there is a severe lack of "pure" lines in NZ anyway and most are F1000 mass produced in asia so it is likely most of our fish are hybrids or poor quality anyway.

I do know there have been imported a number of quality fish that are floating around and often sold in Pupuke but I don't believe any females are around for those so I don't really consider them a line.

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:iag: :gpo2: ryan

It is a shame that we have a poor selection of good lines of cichlids in nz.

and yea the fish up at pupuke come from a good line from germany I think ron said. But yea theres no females from those lines available. Which I do understand as if the females leak out then they may get bread with a poor line resulting in less quality fish.(or as the topic we are on )get cross bread. But at the same time id love to get me hands on them :bggrn:

I am also a victum of buying what I thought was pure and they ended up being hybrid. So as much as I like them I do have a dislike towards them. Mainly for the reason that in nz it is harder to get pure lines of fish so when purchasing fish it is hard to find good quality with guarantee that they are not hybrid, especially peacocks! With the limited fish we have.

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when I first got in to cichlids, there were some interesting posts floating around on this subject. Having people tell me to "kill all hybrids", I was a bit shocked really.

But I know a little more now, and have changed my view slightly, amazing how a little experience can focus the mind on something you enjoy.

Unknown community breedings, being sold off isn't really on (just troll trademe for instance), and is having an adverse effect on the readily available stock in NZ

I now no longer bother with breeders or fish that Im not sure of.

I don't mind paying for quality fish from more experienced breeders

However.....

I do feel there is a place for a planed, line bred hybrid, and there are some nice specimens around i.e. ob peacocks and dragonsblood etc

Wether these started off as accidents or not, I don't know.

Inbreeding is also causeing issues in the small gene pool of NZ, the same as breading through the good traits in a species,

you will also bring some bad, and some of these don't show until several years down the track.

Just my 2c (for today)

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i've been trying to hybridize american cichlids for years.

i had a female jag pair with male texas, and produce eggs a few times. never knew if they were fertile as the jag would eat eggs around after a couple of days. she also ended up killing the texas.

i have owned convict x jack dempsey, very strong and aggressive fish.

i currently have a male jaguar which has paired up with a female salvini who is big enough to produce eggs. lots of mating behaviour between the two. have removed most other fish from the tank to give them more space. hope something happens but there is no way of knowing! internet has lots of conflicting information! so i can only experiment.

anyway, i am only interested in breeding these for personal ornamental fish, and for the challenge of making them breed together. i would cull all but the best/strongest few. i know the importance of not letting hybrid bloodlines get back to original ones. and most hybrids actually look terrible, like a lot of our fish these days. i have seen some terrible looking hybrids around all because of idiots selling off unidentified accidental fry they found in their community tanks. unplanned hybrids should be live food.

TL;DR other people should not breed hybrids, only me.

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I don't see how we can avoid inbreeding in nz we have such a small gene pool and with no new strains or very few being imported it is very hard to find diff blood lines to breed with.

The biggest issue with trying to introduce new pool in to a line is finding good stock, over seas they have the stock to introduce new blood to lines but here you will probably do more harm than good to your lines if you tried. I have done quite a bit of reserach on inbreeding and it doesn't actaually appear to be an issue, in fact allot of populations of african cichlids originate from very small gene pools in the first place. Most of the lines I have have been in the country with no new blood being introduced for over 20 years.

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I'm interested to know why introducing a new blood line can be harmful. I can understand it being harmful if you had an established colony say like my dubs who have been inbred and you added a new blood line of say wc or f1, but if you added another colony that has been inbred but from a diff line would it do more harm than good?.

Sorry kinda hi jacked this thread.

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I'm interested to know why introducing a new blood line can be harmful. I can understand it being harmful if you had an established colony say like my dubs who have been inbred and you added a new blood line of say wc or f1, but if you added another colony that has been inbred but from a diff line would it do more harm than good?.

Sorry kinda hi jacked this thread.

I guess the issue is the purity of the other fish that you are introducing.. You would be relatively safe with something like a dub if you managed to source another good line but with the peacocks etc it is pretty hard to determine the purity of the original line let alone another line. And with peacocks of the same "type" coming from so many different parts of the lake it is almost impossible to get the same line or variant in NZ to introduce new blood with. With the haps etc it is relatively easy ie there are many good lines of giraffes/kadangos/dolphins in NZ so easy to get new blood lines.

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you never know what awsome colours youll get.

That is the best part of trying to crossbreeding some thing!

It's like opening kinder supprise" :lar:

Very exciting challenge of crossing another species as well!!

My own $9.99c with no change'

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i've been trying to hybridize american cichlids for years.

i had a female jag pair with male texas, and produce eggs a few times. never knew if they were fertile as the jag would eat eggs around after a couple of days. she also ended up killing the texas.

i have owned convict x jack dempsey, very strong and aggressive fish.

i currently have a male jaguar which has paired up with a female salvini who is big enough to produce eggs. lots of mating behaviour between the two. have removed most other fish from the tank to give them more space. hope something happens but there is no way of knowing! internet has lots of conflicting information! so i can only experiment.

anyway, i am only interested in breeding these for personal ornamental fish, and for the challenge of making them breed together. i would cull all but the best/strongest few. i know the importance of not letting hybrid bloodlines get back to original ones. and most hybrids actually look terrible, like a lot of our fish these days. i have seen some terrible looking hybrids around all because of idiots selling off unidentified accidental fry they found in their community tanks. unplanned hybrids should be live food.

TL;DR other people should not breed hybrids, only me.

And me too"

Salvini x jag!! Imagine would look cool with jag in different colours..???

Go for it man!

I got batch of super red x green fh, only F1 stage.. Will inbreeding the second stage to improve kok for offspring super red..

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