Likoma Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I think that there has been a lot of excellent points made in terms of minimizing possible further aggression and stress issues(water parameters). Cam is following advice from an action plan that I have spoken to him about. To stop feeding the rest of the tank now will firstly shock the fish digestive system enabling the internal flagellates to prosper. They will forage even more discovering the white stringy faeces(intestinal lining shed to remover the bugs) hidden in nooks and crannies. This is one of the reasons that bloat spreads. The reason trophs are so vulnerable to it, is their rudimentary digestive tract and extreme territoriality. To prevent this happening all fish need to be treated with at best (food soaked in a metronidazole paste) this will kill all bugs that cause bloat. (1 week) Or at least epsom salts to flush the digestive tract with liquid and expelling the flagellates.(this is only successful in treating fish that are not highly infected.)( 1 week) Treating the tank with metro is not cost effective and the tablets are rarely water soluble. In extreme cases I have used a liquid form with excellent success.(Very costly) The most important things is to stop the spread to the entire population. Hence the medicated food. I hope this clears up some of the decisions. Good luck Cam, Thanks Ranjit and Aaron for taking the time to share information. Cheers Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 If the t's are still eating then soaking the food in metro for 20mins then feeding is a good idea imo. A lot of troph sites recommend this method as the metro works better when ingested rather than treating the water in the tank. If you havent caught the bloat in time and they are off their food then treating the tank is your only way. If you need to treat the whole tank then drop the water level as much as poss so you dont need to use as much metro as its really expensive. You can try dosing the tank eith epsom salts as this is a laxative and will help clean them out. 1 tbsp to every 10g i think. Good luck and keep us posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Sorry just saw ya post greg . Good post, I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 i still don't think feeding is a good idea but will be interesting to see the result if it is bloat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likoma Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 I can understand where Smidey is coming from, especially when the cause is an incorrect diet( not this case). Food just further fuels the flaggellates (bugs) and causes an increase in numbers weakening and killing the fish. Unfortunately the only way to effectively (cost) kill the bug is to get the meds right into the digestive tract. Hence the feeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted January 28, 2014 Report Share Posted January 28, 2014 Food is NLS, for the cichlids and novo plec and a mix of novo tab, massivore and samon food ( used sparingly because of the T and Panaques). I can understand where Smidey is coming from, especially when the cause is an incorrect diet( not this case). Food just further fuels the flaggellates (bugs) and causes an increase in numbers weakening and killing the fish. Unfortunately the only way to effectively (cost) kill the bug is to get the meds right into the digestive tract. Hence the feeding. it could be food related from what has been posted so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likoma Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 My apologies Yes you are totally correct. Very probable. I hadn't read that post and quite honestly didn't give cam a chance to talk when I phoned him. Guess I assumed he feed only nls. That said there is a lot of info out there accounting how trophs guts are not as specialized as we think. If only you could get fish to feed from seperate corners of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 I won't be offering you any more advice from now, it's a waste of time. now your planning on feeding them.... have you actually read any thing i have written?? I very much appreciate what you had said, but I was getting frustrated at the comments about doing things that I can not do anything with. I am trying to stop this before it gets any further with the resources that I have at hand. I wasn't after a preventative I was after a cure for the current situation. Believe it or not there is a few people on here that I take words as gossiple you and Rcons are in that group (amungst a few others). I don't doubt the advice you are giving but in the circumstances I can't do any better than what I am doing. it could be food related from what has been posted so far. Quite possible that this is the issue, again I have been trying to keep things in a fine balance it seems this time it is out. I am ;ucky that all of the fish in the tank will eat NLS, so once I get the meds I will be feeding out with NLS. I have now done another 50% WC ( 3 in 3 days) and am waiting for the VET to ring me back. No further fish seem to be affected at this stage. quite honestly didn't give cam a chance to talk when I phoned him I didn't need to talk, I only needed to listen. I thank you for your advice as I do for everyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcon021 Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Thanks. Also note that metro is only active for 8-10 hours so you will have to dose in the morning and evening. I usually do the water change in the evening and then add the metro for the whole tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted January 29, 2014 Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Have you added epsom salt to the tank? Its worth doing while you wait for the metro. I would only feed with metro soaked food as well if you can't get metro you may have to stop feeding and dose the tank with epsom salts for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted January 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2014 Yes I have been adding apsom salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Update: 50% WC + Epsom salt every day so far and changed filter wool today, got the Metro today started doesing via food this afternoon. All fish seem fine no gasping, standard behaviour and the such. Death count: 3 Side note: The chemist took the piss out of me getting drugs for my fish, she said " do not give them alcohol after taking the medication or it may kill them" haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likoma Posted February 6, 2014 Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Everything settled down? Ar you looking to get some more Firefox`s? Im keen to increase our gene pool. I have recently setup a tank that houses Black Calvus, T. Moliro`s , J. Marlieri, N Leleupi, S. Mulitipunctatus , N. Brichardi, C. Moorii , and male Sulphur Heads, Chilumbas, Jacobfreibergeis, Marleri Yellows and Dragonbloods. I really would like the Moliro`s to be the feature piece along with the C.Moorii. We could do a group buy of sorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted February 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2014 Nah everytime I think it is getting better I loose another fish. I have noticed as soon as that get a peppery substrate type thing on the head there will be a dead one in the morning. On a side note there was a couple breeding this morning. I am still keeping up with 50% WC a day with some Epsom salt added. I still have plenty of metro pills left, but they do not seem to be doing much. What other options are there? I don't know if I am going to replace them when all is said and done. I am going through a bit of a change in circumstances so may have to cut all tanks down to minimum which will mean the plan of separating Africans and places into their own tank may not happen. Time will be the decider on this however. I have access to the parent colony of these ones if you are interested in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 not this Cam? http://www.fishchannel.com/fish-health/ ... amita.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likoma Posted February 7, 2014 Report Share Posted February 7, 2014 A great read. Nice work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted February 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2014 I never thought about that, it is possible all the symptoms are the same. I cut a dead one up today and didn't notice anything on the inside ( I guess they parasite is microscopic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nudge Posted February 9, 2014 Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 Would the metro not be helping if it was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camtang Posted February 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2014 You would think that, and at one stage I though all was going well and dandy then bang down the hole again. On a side note I normally throw anything dead into the garden or give it to my cat. Will eating them affect her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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