town water supply or rain water tank?

[jochen]

Hello,

I am new to this forum. I have a question. Recently I have moved house and we are back on town supply on the North Shore Auckland. I was on tank water before and had no problems. So here is my question.

Out of the following options which one would be the better way to go:

1) use town water and just treat it

2) buy a small rain water tank and just use it

3) buy a rain water tank and use an RO system to be sure (got one with the tank I bought but would need to replace all the filters etc)

So basically my question is it a good idea getting a rain water tank and is the rain water in Auckland OK to use straight into the tank or does it need extra filters etc. The house had a UV filter etc but just for the fish that would be to expensive.

Currently I have African Cichlids but at some stage I want to go marine when the finances are back in order in a few years i hope (houses are not cheap these days )

Thanks for you feedback.

[David R]

Town supply will be fine for african cichlids, in fact probably better as it will have a higher mineral content than rain water. Just make sure you use dechlorinator. You'll need RO if you go marine though.

[mycoolmc]

Hey Jochen,

You've seen my setup.(Not sure if i explained my water setup though) I pump rain water straight from the tanks outside into the tanks. The other tanks I have out west are on Town supply and I don't add anything else, just straight from the tap. No idea as to marine....yet

[Sophia]

Given that we have little control over additives at the water treatment plant, I think it's a good idea to always use water conditioner.

[jochen]

Hello

Thanks for all the input. So really either way is OK for what I hear here. Well might keep a look out for a cheap tank on tm always can use it in the garden anyway. Just don't like to add more chemicals then I have to. And I sometimes smell the chlorine more then on other times. I guess I could always fill up some containers a couple of days before the water change and let it gas out just have to get better organized.

[David R]

You won't achieve anything by letting the chlorine "gas out", alanmin has covered the topic more times than I can remember here, try searching for "chloramines".

There is simply no substitute for chemical dechlorinators, you need to add something to neutralise the chloramines or it will do damage to your fish (even if they "look ok" when you don't use it). Seachem Prime is the best bang-for-buck off the shelf, though if you want to buy the raw ingredients yourself and figure out how much to dose it will be cheaper again.

[SamH]

alanmin has covered the topic more times than I can remember here, try searching for "chloramines".

This pretty well covers it: viewtopic.php?p=434846#p434846

[JaSa]

...though if you want to buy the raw ingredients yourself and figure out how much to dose it will be cheaper again.

1kg out of the US around $40.00NZ landed - or the 25kg bag every now and then on TM for around $50.00. You need 0.2mg per 10ltr of water - so the 25kg bag will last you a while

Cheers,

JaSa

[jochen]

Hello thanks

From where in the us or do they sell locally the same?

http://nzchemicalsuppliers.co.nz/list/s ... iosulphate

[Insect Direct]

You won't achieve anything by letting the chlorine "gas out", alanmin has covered the topic more times than I can remember here, try searching for "chloramines".

There is simply no substitute for chemical dechlorinators, you need to add something to neutralise the chloramines or it will do damage to your fish (even if they "look ok" when you don't use it). Seachem Prime is the best bang-for-buck off the shelf, though if you want to buy the raw ingredients yourself and figure out how much to dose it will be cheaper again.

why dont people think about a good filter for house and fish tank water supply? I mean nz water is fairly rank in parts.

add chemicals to nuetralise chemicals sounds good in theory but just filter the crap out has to be a much better way. or am I missing something?

[alanmin4304]

It depends on what type of filter, how good it is and wether it has filled up with nasties. To filter bacteria you need about a one micron filter which means you probably need two different prefilters to stop the one micron from getting blocked up in 5 minutes. Carbon filters will remove some stuff but how do you know when it is full and no longer working. Ion exchange filters take some things out and replace them with something else---usually remove calcium/magnesium ions and replace with sodium ions. Most filters sold for domestic purposes are very small and stop working very quickly and commercial ones are not cheap. Domestic reverse osmosis will treat only small amounts of water and slowly.

The local authority water supply is required by law to meet the NZ drinking water standards and the only problem for fish is chlorine which can be easily removed and relatively cheaply with additives that usually contain sodium thiosulphate (some also remove the ammonia which can be a biproduct but is probably way less than that produced by your fish).

[hovmoller]

You won't achieve anything by letting the chlorine "gas out", alanmin has covered the topic more times than I can remember here, try searching for "chloramines".

Quote from Watercare website in the section of how they treat water:

Chlorine evaporates very quickly. For drinking, place the water in a container and let it stand for up to two hours.

http://www.watercare.co.nz/about-watercare/our-services/dam-and-spring-water-treatment/Pages/default.aspx

[Insect Direct]

It depends on what type of filter, how good it is and wether it has filled up with nasties. To filter bacteria you need about a one micron filter which means you probably need two different prefilters to stop the one micron from getting blocked up in 5 minutes. Carbon filters will remove some stuff but how do you know when it is full and no longer working. Ion exchange filters take some things out and replace them with something else---usually remove calcium/magnesium ions and replace with sodium ions. Most filters sold for domestic purposes are very small and stop working very quickly and commercial ones are not cheap. Domestic reverse osmosis will treat only small amounts of water and slowly.

The local authority water supply is required by law to meet the NZ drinking water standards and the only problem for fish is chlorine which can be easily removed and relatively cheaply with additives that usually contain sodium thiosulphate (some also remove the ammonia which can be a biproduct but is probably way less than that produced by your fish).

Filters are becoming more affordable. I'm currently using 1micron pre filter, 1 micron carbon then down to 0.2micron carbon then uv treatment.

Pressure guages help to give an idea of when filters need changing.

Pre filters a matter of dollars so replace them at least twice as often as the carbon blocks.

I hardly trust local authoritites to get the water right .... just up the road they're on water boil notice for 12years

[David R]

Quote from Watercare website in the section of how they treat water:

From the link about four posts above mine;

When you add chlorine to water you get hypochlorous acid which reacts with the amines (in all proteins) and forms monochloramine. When you add more chlorine you get dichloramine and even more you get trichloramine. All these (and other reactions) form part of the "chlorine demand" in the water. You cannot get free available chlorine until this "chlorine demand" is satisfied. Therefore when the reaction is pushed towards trichloramine there will be virtually no monochloramine present.

When people complain that the chlorine in a swimming pool is too strong and it is burning their eyes the problem usually is that the free available chlorine has been used up by contaminants in the water (such as urea) and this has pushed the chloramines back towards the monochloramine and this is what is burning their eyes. The problem is fixed by adding more chlorine.

When you allow water to stand or aerate it to get rid of the chlorine the chloramines all move back to monochloramine and this will react with your fish the same as an under chlorinated swimming pool will with your eyes.

All this makes me glad I'm on rainwater supply...

[hovmoller]

Yeah I certainly don't know what is the truth here but either Alan or Watercare is wrong.

All I know is that chlorinated water coming out of the tap smells like chlorine and the more you aerate it the more it smells. I am assuming that whatever I am smelling is something that is leaving the water. And yes I know this is not very scientific.

[David R]

I never noticed much of a chlorine smell with my Auckland tap water, but I understand the levels can fluctuate greatly depending on the quality of the incoming water. I also believe the effects of chlorine on fish aren't always as obvious as straight out death (as with heavy doses of chlorine), it might seem like they're "ok" using water straight out of the tap but who knows what it is doing to the sensitive gill tissue and the long-term effects on their health. I always used Prime with my water changes in Auckland, better safe than sorry.

[hovmoller]

The way I read Alan's post (and other online articles) is that chlorine (or water with chlorine in it) added to either a pool or a fish tank will react with organic compounds and create other undesireable compounds that can sting or do harm in fish gills or whatever. In this case I don't think many would disagree that it is better to be safe than sorry and remove the chlorine with de-chlorinators or carbon filters etc.

But the question here though is whether chlorine will evaporate from clean tap water if left out for a while. If it does then adding the now chlorine free water to a fishtank would be safe.

A comment Alan?

[alanmin4304]

Chlorine is a very strong oxidizing agent and reacts with all sorts of things. This is why monochloramine is added to water supplies in some parts of the US instead of chlorine. It is not as good a disinfectant but does not form as many nasties on the side. Our water may not be pristine at source but generally lacks the nasty chemicals from industrial polution found in many other countries that will react with chlorine to form even worse chemicals. All water other than laboratory distilled water contains chemicals that form the "chlorine demand" of the water. This is the stuff that reacts and forms mono then di then trichloramine before you actually get any "free available chlorine". When you stand water or aerate it you will drive the chlorine of and the equilibrium moves back all the way to monochloramine and this is what people smell when they think they are smelling chlorine. When a swimming pool smells like that people think that too much chlorine has been added but atually the way to fix it is to add more chlorine and drive the equilibrium up to trichloramine. The only way to get rid of the various chloramines is to add sodium thiosulphate which then produces minute quantities of colloidal sulphur,sodium sulphate and hydrochloric acid all of which are less toxic than chlorine or chloramines.

[jochen]

Thank you I understand now much better what I am dealing with. Back to my original Questions.

1) Town supply (Treated to make it less toxic)

or

2) rain water collection

I understand I might have to add some trace elements to the rain water but that seams to be the more natural option then try to put chemicals in to take out other chemicals. Or do I get this wrong?

[alanmin4304]

If you use rainwater you will need to add chemicals and if you use tap water you will need to add chemicals so the choice is yours.