wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Heya Wasp, I don't think I am arguing here, just putting foward my opnion and thoughts. Pieman Dude - you're arguing, pages of it. It's all been said before. But the take on Trade Me was new(ish). I think the thing with Trade Me is that the person can see a pic of the exact product they are getting prior to purchase. But anyway if the person did not like it once they saw it in person I would not hold them to it. No need, I have a holding tank Actually I only sell a small portion via Trade Me. Good point on the price comparison against wholesale, that has occurred to me also, that I am getting a lot better than wholesale. But two things. firstly I am the wholesaler, and the retailer, I have to deal with people individually, and when they come over they will often stay an hour. Secondly, I believe aquacultured corals are and should be worth more, for both practicle, and ethical reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Wasp - Yes its been said before, but so has the other side, its a ballanced disucssion (i hope?). Who am I arguing with? If the trademe person was willing to offer some form of 'garantee' of sorts that would go a long way towards good faith. Also trademe offers public feedback, you would soon learn whos doing a good job and whos not. Interesting you think that aquacultured corals should be more expensive. I know they are more expensive, and I would rather buy frags than wild caught colonies (for my own ethical reasons, save the planet). However it would be better if the aquacultured corals were cheaper, then people would be more likley to buy these than wild captured colonies. As we have seen, cheaper will often win the sale. Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Actually I only sell a small portion via Trade Me yes, but how did you meet/find new people..... I bet trademe was your "free" advertising.... it can give you email addresses of people you have sold too..... I bet a mailout would be more efffective now and you could "set" your price... quick sale no issues..... they come over they will often stay an hour yes if someone is paying you money and you want an ongoing relationship it will cost time..... not sure how to deal with this one if you where selling 20-30 things each week.... maybe have a collection hour on Sat/Sun, if they miss it, roll to next week. when i visit wholesalers I love to spend time looking at tanks/systems/plumbing etc... its human nature.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Pies - agreed, other than one thing, you say aquacultured corals "should" be cheaper. Not the commercial reality once again. What we think "should" happen, in our perfect world, is not always the case. Price is driven by commercial reality, and the reality is that it is even with shipping it is cheaper to plunder a reef than to grow stuff from scratch. At some future time this may change, but that will be due to the cost of wild caught stuff going up in price, not aquacultured coming down. I would suggest Pies that if you feel strongly enough about it you could grow and sell good quantities of aquacultured corals "cheaper" yourself. BTW everything I sell is guaranteed. However, of course aqucultured is grown and adapted to life in a tank, little need for a guarantee. Also, everything in the end comes down to supply/demand/price. Try this slant - the more expensive aquacultured stuff is, the more people would do it, the less damage to wild reefs. And, all this is making me sound like some big time coral grower - not the case, I only have two smallish tanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Peter - (May I call you Peter? Sounds better than Rbn)! All good points. The time thing, well, part of my enjoyment of the hobby is yabbing with people that come around, plus some of them are sources of new frags. But in dollar terms only, it will sometimes be hard to justify. That will be another advantage to Goldfish Pagoda. No time spent answering multiples of questions from people just browsing the tanks. Just here's the bag, thanks for the money, better run before it gets cold now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 but to many of us, your two little tanks are like a candy store ! you are not just selling coral frags... you are proving to others it can be done! I am suprised that more people not also doing it, maybe as you have hinted, its costs money and takes time.... sometimes significant others may object to "more tanks" in the garage as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Wasp - geez man! What gives you any indication I feel strongly about it? Read what I wrote. I said aquacultured corals should be cheaper to reduce the impact on the reefs. Yes this is a 'perfect world' outlook, and yes I understand the comercial reality that makes this impossible. Just to make sure you hear me lound and clear: it is a shame they are not cheaper the wile caught coral because it would be better for the reefs, i know that this isn't and probably won't be the case. I would suggest Pies that if you feel strongly enough about it you could grow and sell good quantities of aquacultured corals "cheaper" yourself. I think what you and people like you are doing is great, selling frags. Why don't I do it? It would be a complete waste of my time, there is only scraps of money in it and I value my time far more highly than a few dollars. I have/do sell frags from time to time though. In all honesty I would rather swap of even give them away, however I don't. The only reason I sell them is so the person recieving them places some value on them, I gave some stuff away once to someone who didn't appreciate it because it cost him nothing. So now I charge so I know they are more likley to be treated with respect. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Peter - Very Funny! The significant other does give me feedback, not always positive! Then I have to But when she's not looking it's :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Pies - Sorry, my mistake, I just assumed that after all these pages of arguing you must feel strongly about it. But as you told me I keep arguing and never let go, I will let you get the last word on this. Go for it - I will not answer back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Pies - Sorry, my mistake, I just assumed that after all these pages of arguing you must feel strongly about it. But as you told me I keep arguing and never let go, I will let you get the last word on this. Go for it - I will not answer back Your just baiting me! I have to respond. The subject of frags and their price is the first time it poped up, thats whay I ment when I said "why do you think I feel strongly about it". I thought you were talking about selling frags. I am confused now, are we talking about different things? As for arguing, if you read it I was agreeing with you, cept for the point about how I thought the frags should be cheaper, which I do, not because comercialy they should be cheaper, because it would be better for the reefs, and I know it probably won't ever be like that. I think we are both on the same page, maybee just a differnt book Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 speeking of fragging corals, I have heard there is someone looking into fragging corals on a commercial level in New Zealand. It will be interesting to see how that goes. Personally I would pay more for a fragged coral than an imported coral and once my tank has finished cycling I will buy some frags the problem is I don't believe there would be many customers that would think like me (well I know how few I have that are like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Dan - Interesting, be good to see if someone does go ahead with it, hope they do. I know its a good hobbie business overseas. I would rather purchase a coral that is know to survive in captivity, hence the reason I like to buy/swap frags over purchasing wild caught colonies. But in the end as someone else said earlier on, often frags are more expensive that whole wild colonies which makes it hard to justify. Your right not everyone will think like you. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 If wild collection of coral/fish is proven to be damaging the reefs, NZ will sign up at the first hint of a international collection ban agreement... I can see this happening in time, then will will all look to wasp for advice etc...... on how to propagate more of our own corals. Anyone can call me Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perky Posted March 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 peter, i agree with you. not only should we aquaculture coral, someone should also think about aquaculturing fish and ornamental shrimp. perky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Perky - Who? Its unlikley to be a viable option. I agree with the sentiment, but the comerical reality may stop it. What about the importation of captive bred/propogated live stock? Maybee this will be a more realistic option for us? Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 its not economically viable at the moment, the wild thing can be harvested for such low cost, they use philopino divers paid peanuts, low cost locals for bagging........ a few large scale operations in florida/mexico have made it, but so many have not just look at paua farming here, not a gold rush! economics have to change at the supply point of the chain before it would be viable in NZ's tiny market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Dude - you're arguing, pages of it. It's all been said before oh c'mon wasp, you're just as bad. Pies is not arguing, he is keeping a cool head and discussing the point in question or at worst, replying to your sarcasm. can we please keep this clean and in perspective? or do i need to quote cees link to forum guidelines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perky Posted March 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 hey guys, hav u seen that 3' blue light on trade me. looks pretty good. the guy said that he would giv it to me if no one bought it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Perky - Who? Its unlikley to be a viable option. I agree with the sentiment, but the comerical reality may stop it. What about the importation of captive bred/propogated live stock? Maybee this will be a more realistic option for us? Pie Very good point, much more viable still deerer though. Although eventually things will change and breeding of fish and propogating may be more viable. I was talking to an international sales rep from red sea about how far the industry has come in the last few years and what the manafacturers have lernt recently it was quite interesting, especially being a newby in the saltwater hobby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Dan - care to share? I'd love to hear what he had to say. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 so is there really a solution to all this? it seems to be the same thing being discussed over and over. i think if there is an online "marine" sales web site that is significantly cheaper than retail stores (as someone pointed out earlier, hardware = easier to buy, fish/corals = you really want to see them first) it would take off in NZL and probably change the market significantly. by this i believe the larger stores and hff's would change their marketing to sell online too. i believe they would still retain their stores as a 'pickup' location but prices would drop to compete. you always need a 'retail store' (or point of presence if you like) in order to get newbies into the hobby. its simply a matter of time before NZL follows the rest of the world in regards to online sales. again, i think this would more reflect hardware rather than fish/corals though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 the last number is the international wholesalers price per item US$ shipping/others costs will be the same if its wild caught or breed how could you raise an Anemone then sell it for US$2 $2us is a days wages in some of the countries that supply the trade. Pomacanthus semicirculatus Koran Juv. M 18 $2.65 Abudef saxatilis Abudef M 50 - 80 $0.35 Abudef saxatilis Abudef L 32 - 50 $0.35 Amphiprion melanopus Clown fish S 50 - 80 $0.73 Amphiprion melanopus Clown fish M 32 - 50 $0.73 Amphiprion melanopus Clown fish L 20 - 32 $0.73 Amphiprion melanopus Clown fish XL 20 $0.73 Amphiprion sebae Clown fish S 50 - 80 $0.81 Amphiprion sebae Clown fish M 32 - 50 $0.81 Amphiprion sebae Clown fish L 20 - 32 $0.81 Amphiprion sebae Clown fish XL 20 $0.81 Amiphiprion xanthurus/clarkii Clown fish S 50 - 80 $0.81 Amiphiprion xanthurus/clarkii Clown fish M 32 - 50 $0.81 Amiphiprion xanthurus/clarkii Clown fish L 20 - 32 $0.81 Amiphiprion xanthurus/clarkii Clown fish XL 20 $0.81 Radianthus malu L.T. Anemone M 20 $1.02 Radianthus malu L.T. Anemone L 12 $1.61 Radianthus malu L.T. Anemone XL 8 $1.99 Radianthus malu Blub Anemone M 32 $1.95 Radianthus malu Blub Anemone L 20 - 24 $1.95 Radianthus ritteri Carpet Anemone M 32 $1.97 Radianthus ritteri Carpet Anemone L 20 - 24 $1.97 Radianthus ritteri Carpet Anemone XL 10 - 12 $1.97 Radianthus ritteri Light Color Anemone M 32 $1.89 Radianthus ritteri Light Color Anemone L 20 - 12 $2.00 Radianthus ritteri Light Color Anemone XL 10 - 12 $2.33 Raianthus ritteri/ Light green Light Color Anemone M 32 $13.08 Raianthus ritteri/ Light green Light Color Anemone L 20 - 12 $13.08 Raianthus ritteri/Dark green Dark Green Anemone M 32 $20.35 Raianthus ritteri/Dark green Dark Green Anemone L 20 - 12 $20.35 Raianthus ritteri/Blue Blue Color Anemone M 32 $20.35 Raianthus ritteri/Blue Blue Color Anemone L 20 - 12 $20.35 As an importer you don't ever get a picture of the item before you buy it...... and of course importers use the internet as there market..... if it works at this level when you have to pay up thousands of dollars upfront, goods sight unscene with foriegn cash flows.... I think trademe with a picture and client picking up from a known supplier/person will be a walk in the park. Doubt that a NZ based online dry goods store ever be able to compete with the volume that the big US mail order shops do now! I have purchased quite a bit via american mail order and so far NO issues at all.... and no GST or tax yet charged. why does it matter where the store is when you purchase online? except shipping delay.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 Chim maybe you should be a moderator!!! Pete thats a nice list but show mw a supplier that can actually come up with the goods when you order it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 ill buy a blue carpet for 40$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted March 18, 2005 Report Share Posted March 18, 2005 steve - just getting a bit sick of it, as im sure everyone else is. brian/rnb - i'd buy any of those - even converted with 300% mark-up! freight's gotta be a killer though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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