Shelley Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 We were just congratulating ourselves this morning and not having had a death for over 2 weeks. We should have kept our mouths shut. We did a 30% water change on Sunday. The rocks and plants were GREEN with algae so had them soaking in water doctored with algae rid while we worked on the tank. We did give the tank a pretty thorough clean with the vacuum/siphon hose thing which stirred up the stones at the bottom but cleaned a lot of debris out, we wiped the walls of the tank to remove the worst of the algae with a clean cloth (no added ingredient for cleaning) and we added 'aqua plus' water conditioner, 'cycle' according to the directions on the bottles when we replaced the water(we used both these products last time we did a water change and had no losses) we also added some accu clear and a small dosage of algae rid the only thing we suspect the fish dont like is the algae rid..... anyway....the tank was looking great and the fish looked very happy, yesterday was the best I have seen our tank looking and all fish looked very happy and well and active (not to mention amorous!) This morning one of our femal swords was looking bad. She had a white spot on her tail and almost a white graze like mark over the top of her head. I did not think this was whitespot as that had been described to me as looking like someone had sprinkled salt over the fish. She was quiet and sitting on the bottom of the tank looking very sorry for herself...she would swim about a little but other fish would bother her so i scooped her into a breeding box to give her a rest from the other fish while I did some water tests. Bloody hell!!!! the Nitrate read 20! Nitrit .05 (cannot get this back down to 0 although it has been at 0 previously)PH 7.4, ammonia 0 - 0.6, GH 80 mg/l KH 50 mg/l temp sits happily at about 27c. The rest of the population of the tank look great, very happy, but I went into a blind panic to read nitrate of 20! I took some photos of our sick sword (I hope I can work out how to post them here)...her tail looked a bit raggedy also.....and she went from happy to sick to dead in around 3 hours. So far everyone else seems fine but I am worried about the nitrate and how to correct it. Also I find the test kits quite hard to read to me the samples could be almost any one of about 5 colours! it takes me some time to work out which colour it is closest to. Does anyone else have this problem? If anyone can enlighten me about what to do i would be most grateful.I would hate to lose any more of my lovely fish. Tank has been up and running for around 2 months (? guessing) it is 360 litres. we have some plants (have just ordered more via trademe) ....bugger...how do you add a picture? was hoping to show you my sick fish in case you could diagnose what was wrong with her....clicked on img but there was no option to add the pic (???) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 It's possible you 'over cleaned' that tank, it's not good to disturb the tank too much. Also are you sure your rag didn't have anything on it, maybe from being washed? Any soap, washing power, bleach, etc residue might have killed the bactria in your filter and tank, making your tank cycle again and causing the high nitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 The way to deal with excess nitrate is simply more water changes. This time it might be a better idea to reduce the number of chemicals you add and avoid other changes. You will need to dechlorinate the water, and using chemicals for that is probably OK if you are in a hurry to bring nitrates down. Letting the water stand for a day would be better though. With so much going on it is hard to figure out exactly what might have been the problem. Hopefully someone with a bit better disease knowledge can spot what was wrong with the swordtail. One detail you haven't supplied is what the fish load is like. For reading the tests, use good light and try tilting the vial of liquid with respect to the light to get a better match with the colour scale. Oh yeah, and rather than algae rid chemicals, try reducing the light period in the tank. Turning the lights off for a couple of days can knock back a bad outbreak. The fish don't mind lack of light nearly as much as algae rid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I'd agree with the others. Lots of water changes - maybe some larger ones at first then perhaps 3 smaller ones a week until the tank recycles. And just add water ager/dechlorinator. The sword may have been sick or vulnerable anyway and the cleaning plus chemicals triggered the disease. Sorry but I don't know enough to diagnose what it is. When I got my first tank and promptly overstocked it, I did 20% water changes every 2-3 days and gradually tapered off to twice weekly, then weekly, and now hardly ever :oops: Hope that helps Cheers Jude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Hi Shelly, Looks like you may have gone a bit overboard with the cleaning and upset the balance of the tank... especially if you were poking around in the gravel too much, which could have released unwanted bacteria into tank. You say: This morning one of our femal swords was looking bad. She had a white spot on her tail and almost a white graze like mark over the top of her head This could be due to high stress levels, or could even be caused by the fish jamming itself in an area (under a rock or the heater).. in order to get out of the way from all your activity. The four chemicals you have added are all not required if you get your tank into a balanced state with the correct light, and fish load as the others have mentioned. Partial water changes will cure your other prob. Adding pics. http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=2406 http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=3880 Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Thank you all so much for your helpful feedback. I am not normally a chemical kind of girl so am not fussed on using chemicals at all.However prior to using ANY chemicals i was having a lot of losses....i realise now this was due to the fact my tank had not cycled fully. The water conditioner does make the tank cloudy but the fish actually seem very happy to take it, the 'cycle' stuff too seemed to be agreeable to them however the only other time i have used the algae rid they were not happy. I am quite prepared to accept that they have far too much light it is a very light room for starters...and i do tend to keep the curtains pulled to stop the glare on the tank (and to help me admire my fishies!) but the light goes on around 7.30 am ish and off about 10pm ish...so i shall cut that down (i just like SEEING them! lol. Yes i agree i may have over-cleaned the tank. it did look like it needed it but it is quite likely i removed too much of the good bacteria that was doing it's job. Algae is a major problem i felt it was choking the plants (not to mention what it was doing to the glass :roll: ) and they look much better for having had a clean, the tank itself looks great and like i say the fish look great. I may have it overstocked for a new-ish tank.....most of the fish are little, and it is a BIG tank. The sword that died was 'new' less than a week ago and had seemed quite happy in her new home right up until; this morning. The water change was done Sunday. Our 360 litre tank now houses: 5 neon tetras, 2 blue three spot gouramis, 2 honey dwarf gouramis, 1 kissing gourami, 4 head and tail lights, 3 sword tails, 3 black widow tetras 3 platties, 2 guppies (he won't leave her ALONE!), 2 little orangey red things....(maybe some sort of tetra or barb???) the cutest funkiest little vacuum cleaner type fishy that loves cleaning up the stones....and the cutest funkiest little glass sucker fishy (whatever they are). These fish have been added gradually the latest arrivals were the platties a couple of the swords the glass sucker and the dwarf gouramis and kissing gourami...prior to that we had no 'new' fish for at least 2 weeks....and no deaths over that period of time. Nitrit has sat at .05 for a couple of weeks or more prior to which it had been 0. We have been doing weekly water changes of no less than 25%. I shall get on with a 30% water change now. We dont have chlorine in our water but i was using the water conditioner AND the 'cycle'. am i best to use just one of these items? or neither? or maybe a half dose....over that size tank it seems like one hell of a lot of chemical. They both seem like good products but I don't want them working against each other...specially when the fish seem so happy (apart from the DEAD one!) why are the fish so happy when the nitrates are such a mess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Just found information here on how to post photos....hmmmmm....didn't work for me as I had to list email addresses of those I wanted to share photos with (???) but I have seen photos on here without links to click on to open them?) anyway...the picture of my sick sword wasn't that clear anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Hi Shelly, The two links I added... http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=2406 http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?t=3880 .. explain pretty well how to post your pics... but in the first instance you need either a web site of your own... or a place that will host your photos and allow your photos to be viewed by the public. Not all hosting sites do this.. but the ones mentioned do. Once you have your pics stored somewhere.. you just use the method as outlined by Caryl or Cees, and your pics will appear on the site. If you are having probs with any of this, I can host your photos for you if you want on my site, but apparently it is quite easy to set up an account with such places as mentioned... like Photobucket etc. HTH Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 What's probably causing your aglae is the length of time you have your light on for. At the most it should be on for 12 hours a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 20ppm of nitrates is nothing to worry about. That's a safe level, far from a mess. And if you don't have chlorine in your water, don't waste money putting water conditioners in. That's really all they're there for. Same with Cycle. Just extra crap in the water that you don't need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Cycle isn't extra crap in the water that you don't need Ira, it contains nitrifying and nitrafying bacteria. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misnoma Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 actually.. scrap that reply.. this isn't a discussion about cycle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 Thanks again everyone for your help. I am really happy to hear conflicting ideas, what works for some doesn't work for others etc. My mother kept fish for years when we lived in Christchurch and never cycled a tank,(when I told her about it she had never heard of it) and rarely lost a fish (maybe Christchurch had great water?) she has a small tank now in Temuka, and has had a few losses but nothing major....when I talk about nitrates she thinks I have gone mad, lol. I have done a 30% water change tonight...with NO additives...and everyone is sulking although I was very discreet about siphoning the water out, and siphoning it back in. Nitrates are still up but down to 10 now which is better than 20. I will check it in the morning and if it is still up I will do another 30% change. Ph has dropped to 7, ammonia is nil, nitrite is still .05 . Plattys and swords are the least happy of everyone in the tank...and I can't find Gary (lil vacuum cleaner fishy) but it is a good sign he isn't floating belly up....... fingers and toes crossed I will get this water episode SORTED some time soon, and my tank can settle back down to having happy inhabitants again. Thanks again everyone, your help is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 You mention the tank was really dirty and needed a good clean. After only 2 months it shouldn't have been all that dirty at all. Are you overfeeding? If so, it will be why the ammonia and nitrite levels are up. You may have reached a level of waste in the bottom of the tank the filter can't cope with. Try backing off the food a lot. The fish don't need very much food. It's best to have them quite hungry, - then they clean the tank up. Most of those fish could survive quite happily on 2 feeds a week. If you are going to feed daily, just use a small amount. Add a second small amount if needed. The idea is to have little or no food hit the bottom of the tank. There's also less poo for the filter to process as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plecs Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 it sounds to me that the fish might have been burned. accu clear is a great product, but if you put too much in it will burn the fish, leaving white areas on the fish. If i ever use Accu Clear in a tank i always underdose. I also find Algae Fix is by far the best anti algae treatment, but again never ever overdose with it as it too will burn the fish. I have my lights on my tanks for the same time as you do, and have very little algae problems, and never use any algae treatments. Why dont you get some borneo suckers of bristlnoses to eat the algae and save you the hassle? I use both aqua plus and cycle, and have had problems when i have forgotton to add them! good luck plecs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelley Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Thanks again everyone..... overfeeding....could be the problem..... although they appear to be STARVING at breakfast time, and it is all gone in about a minute. I worry about some of the slower ones to get moving missing out and starving to death ...though I hear it is much worse to over-feed than underfeed. my groovy wee glass sucker died this morning (R.I.P. Harold), but we still have the wee vacuum cleaner fishy with the cute wee whiskers...not sure what he is ....those fancy names leave me bamboozled. he is a paleish brown/grey colour with browny speckles...and very active quivering his wee whiskers all over the tank.(Gary) I will replace Harold and perhaps get another Gary.....I wonder if Gary is male or female, lol. The platties were still looking a bit seedy and i re-read the label on the CYCLE bottle....and added a dose...Nitrate was up to either 50 or 100....colours are almost identical but a BIG difference between 50 and 100. Also added about a half dose of the water conditioner (ran out) and the fish do seem to have perked up already....i shall try NOT to use accu clear OR the algae rid....already the front glass is green.... i intended turing off the light this morning before going out...and forgot, lol but i shall try and lower the light levels...i read somewhere that the type of light might make a difference??? (2 flourescent tubes) If my guppy isn't pregnant it sure isn't through lack of trying....I'm coming back as a guppy in the next life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HummingBird Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Try getting a timer for the light, I had a bit of a problem with algae but once I started getting the light on at regular hours it's mostly cleared up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plecs Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 lots of new tanks have algae problems until the whole thing settles. I would use Algae Fix (much better that algae rid). but again, make sure you dont overdose! Same with Accu Clear, it works well, so why look at a cloudy tank, just underdose instead of over! I have the same problem with feeding my fish, I am sure that the slower ones get nothing, however, they are still alive and well and would surely of starved to death by now if this they werent getting food. and fish are greedy, if you fed them a couple of hours after the morning feed they would appear to be starving all over again! they are just trying to trick you into feeding them more! You might find that you are better off using different bulbs, and may find that the fish look better, and the plants grow quicker. ask your lfs. and get more algae eaters! natural way of dealing with the problem, which is always the best way to go! good luck plecs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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