jackp Posted December 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 25, 2011 That's good news for Bruce. Just wondering did you try rice instead of pasta? It's lighter on the digestion and less protein than pasta, whereas you mentioned high protein he didn't do well on. I know for humans wheat has a part that is indigestible but am not sure if a dog's stomach can cope with it or not. i did try rice. pasta seems to work better. i know that pasta has more protien, but for some reason he holds the food down better when i use pasta than rice. i think that he also had an inflamed oesophagus from throwing up so much. it sort of means the worse he gets the worse he's going to be. i figure what i'm doing now is working, so i'm going to leave it for 2 weeks, then start experimenting to see if i can get him onto something a bit cheaper. his food is costing $50-$60 a week at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Is the cost of inserting a gastrostomy tube too great? That's what we do for people who can't eat .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 You'd probably have to put him under anaesthetic to get it in and then I don't know how it could be kept in there once he'd woken up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Gastrostomy = stomach hole .. ie a hole in the abdomen leading directly to the stomach. Food and water is iniserted directly into the stomach bypassing the oesophagus. Often used in people with oesophageal cancer ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Ah sorry, I thought you meant the shove it down the throat type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 a feeding tube is only a short-term solution, the tube can't stay in indefinitely. they are also quite expensive ($3000 at the specialist clinic, maybe cheaper at the vet clinic) and run the risk of infection. through changing management stategies, i think i've got it down to a system that works. bruce hasn't regurgitated much in the last week, and not at all in the last 3 days. he is also up to 32kg. he is much more energetic and, though very skinny, almost seems like his old self. i think i've managed to suss it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 any chance of a photo of good old Bruce? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l540/jackp88/?action=view¤t=IMG_0595.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 and when he was a pup http://s1122.photobucket.com/albums/l540/jackp88/?action=view¤t=brucepup.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 aww what a sweetie. Nice to put a nose to the tale 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 a feeding tube is only a short-term solution, the tube can't stay in indefinitely. they are also quite expensive ($3000 at the specialist clinic, maybe cheaper at the vet clinic) and run the risk of infection. through changing management stategies, i think i've got it down to a system that works. bruce hasn't regurgitated much in the last week, and not at all in the last 3 days. he is also up to 32kg. he is much more energetic and, though very skinny, almost seems like his old self. i think i've managed to suss it. Id have to say lots of credit to Jackp here he has done some hard yard with Bruce and never given up and got some good results, I have seen him a few times a week since he was really sick and he is starting to look awesome and behave as normal as he used to when I used to visit.. Well as normal as goofy Bruce can be that is, I am stocked to see the results come through and hope it can be managed well in the future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice222 Posted December 28, 2011 Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 Aww he does look like an amazing dog. By the way, although it sounds quite rare, is it a condition that bruce developed or was it something he's always had? He looks so healthy in the photos that I would not have even though for a second that he is a dog troubled by such a condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted December 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2011 in bruces case he has had it from birth (it can also develop later in a dogs life). bruce started regurgitating the day i got him (at 6 weeks old). for the first year i had him i didn't really know what was going on. the vet i was going to at the time wasn't a lot of help. when bruce was about a year old i went to a different vet who diagnosed hi with megaesophagus. after that i used various feeding techniques that kept the problem under control. he had gone 3 years without any major issues. he did have short spells where he would regurgitate and cough a bit, at which point i would stop his food for a day and he would be fine (sounds mean, but it was one of the management methods the vet told me to use). up until mid november i never thought his condition was that serious. i had to clean up a bit of vomit now and then, but he was a healthy happy dog. i still don't know what caused his condition to become cronic, but i'm hoping that he will still be able to live a full life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted June 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Thought I'd update this thread as a bit has happened since i last posted. At the start of the year I built what is called a Bailey chair for Bruce (basically a box that holds him in an upright position). I have been cooking and pureeing food which I feed him in his Bailey chair 3 times a day and leave him in the chair for 20 mins after feeding. Using this method I managed to get him up to 34-35kg. I thought I had sussed it. Sadly he has recently stopped tolerating the cooked food. I tried changing the ratios of the ingredients i was using but to no benefit. I tried the tinned "casserole" food again, which he seemed to go ok on, however he has now developed pneumonia again (his regurgitation can cause infections in his windpipe leading to pneumonia). I've got him on antibiotics and am having to hand feed him cooked chicken breast as he won't eat anything else. I am hoping that once the pneumonia is dealt with I can get him eating other foods again (1.2kg of chicken breast a day gets pretty expensive). I've had him in at the vet a couple of times, but he has told me there is nothing he knows of that I can do that I'm not already doing. I am thinking about trying raw feeding, however it is not without risk. Raw feeding comes with the risk of salmonella etc. Not so much an issue for a healthy dog as their digestive systems are set up to deal with raw and possibly contaminated meat. With Bruce however the risk is higher as he quite often has an inflamed oesophagus which makes him prone to infections. Unfortunately I am running out of options. He is currently down to 31kg. As I say, once the pneumonia is dealt with he may come right. Here's hoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Best of wishes and happy thoughts to you Jack. I nursed and hand fed/medicated my cat for a year before he died, it's heart breaking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Definately try raw feeding. We've had brilliant results with dogs with skin conditions etc, and it's definately the best for their overall health. Don't worry about salmonella if you feed raw food on it's own, his stomach acid will take care of any germs. You only need to worry about bacteria if you're feeding raw food with other food, because the grain/cooked meat/dry food will slow down his digestion, block things up and let infection grow in that longer time frame. If he has a full belly of straight raw meat and bone it'll be completely digested within 4 hours, while grain foods take around 12 hours. Jimbos petfood do lots of soft pre-mixed raw foods, and they deliver free in auckland. The power patties might be the easiest option, everything pre-ground and grain free... http://www.jimbos.co.nz/shop/home-deliv ... tties10kg/ There's also a raw feeding vet in grey lynn, she does consults and would be the best qualified person to answer raw feeding and megaesophagus questions. http://www.rawessentials.co.nz/index.php Best of luck, he looks like a lovely boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice222 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Definately try raw feeding. We've had brilliant results with dogs with skin conditions etc, and it's definately the best for their overall health. Don't worry about salmonella if you feed raw food on it's own, his stomach acid will take care of any germs. You only need to worry about bacteria if you're feeding raw food with other food, because the grain/cooked meat/dry food will slow down his digestion, block things up and let infection grow in that longer time frame. If he has a full belly of straight raw meat and bone it'll be completely digested within 4 hours, while grain foods take around 12 hours. Jimbos petfood do lots of soft pre-mixed raw foods, and they deliver free in auckland. The power patties might be the easiest option, everything pre-ground and grain free... http://www.jimbos.co.nz/shop/home-deliv ... tties10kg/ There's also a raw feeding vet in grey lynn, she does consults and would be the best qualified person to answer raw feeding and megaesophagus questions. http://www.rawessentials.co.nz/index.php Best of luck, he looks like a lovely boy Even though i think raw feeding is great, i think it would be hard for his dog to keep it down due to his condition.plus op had said they tried blended raw chicken etc and that didn't work. Last time i heard, he was getting a little better though, so if he'll well enough to keep it down. Raw might work well to help him get more weight and keep it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonnaM Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Check out the 'K9 Natural' raw food. Its a small soft meaty pellet that can be added to water. You could ask about his condition on their web site and see if they have any ideas. My dog had a triple-pelvic-osteotomy at 14mths old and limped and had anti-inflammatories at times for 4 years after the op. When I started her on K9 natural she started jumping fences!!!! Unbelievable change in her health. She's now 10 and still great K9 Natural does all the work by putting the raw food together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted June 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Definately try raw feeding. We've had brilliant results with dogs with skin conditions etc, and it's definately the best for their overall health. Don't worry about salmonella if you feed raw food on it's own, his stomach acid will take care of any germs. You only need to worry about bacteria if you're feeding raw food with other food, because the grain/cooked meat/dry food will slow down his digestion, block things up and let infection grow in that longer time frame. If he has a full belly of straight raw meat and bone it'll be completely digested within 4 hours, while grain foods take around 12 hours. Jimbos petfood do lots of soft pre-mixed raw foods, and they deliver free in auckland. The power patties might be the easiest option, everything pre-ground and grain free... http://www.jimbos.co.nz/shop/home-deliv ... tties10kg/ There's also a raw feeding vet in grey lynn, she does consults and would be the best qualified person to answer raw feeding and megaesophagus questions. http://www.rawessentials.co.nz/index.php Best of luck, he looks like a lovely boy once the food hits his stomach he is fine. the problem is he tends to get inflamation in his oespophagus which increases the chance of infection. However, I may just have to do it and be careful where I get his food from. Thanks DonnaM, I will check out the K9 Natural food. On the bright side Bruce is definitely responding well to the antibiotics. Until he has fully recovered I won't be able to tell what food will work well for him as he tends to be much worse when he has pneumonia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinkles Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 k9 natural is great too, really easy raw food :thup: Jimbos home delivery is made onsite and delivered fresh or frozen, unlike the stuff they have in supermarkets which can sit around for a bit. They have a mutton mince roll which is really rich and fatty, it's great for putting weight on dogs fast. He's a lucky boy having such a caring owner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice222 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 k9 natural is great too, really easy raw food :thup: Jimbos home delivery is made onsite and delivered fresh or frozen, unlike the stuff they have in supermarkets which can sit around for a bit. They have a mutton mince roll which is really rich and fatty, it's great for putting weight on dogs fast. He's a lucky boy having such a caring owner If you really do decide on raw, with frozen food there's k9 Naturals, Woofies, and Raw Essentuals and Jimbos that I know of off the top of my head. K9 Naturals also makes freeze dried raw which is pretty handy. The bag says you're meant to rehydrate it and feed it as a meal, but I used them as training treats and to stuff my dog's kong wobbler instead. It's expensive, but I've tried using grain free brands as treats, but even with great brands like Orijen, I notice a huge difference in his stool quality, raw just seems to work better. Personally, I tend to buy cheap chicken, duck, pork and organ cuts from Asian grocery places since chicken necks/feet/backs are about $5 per kg, vs. buying raw essential chicken necks for around $10 per kg. If they're deemed safe enough to sell to people to eat I don't see why dogs would have any problem. Otherwise I sometimes buy whole chicken and chop it into meal sized portions before freezing it, and that works out pretty cheap. Hearts and tongues are particularly good to buy too, since they count as a muscle meat, but is as cheap as the boney cuts. The main reason I still buy branded pre-made raw is for the more exotic meats, so that I can introduce greater variety to my dog's diet. I tend to get possum and rabbit from Raw Essentials and green tripe from k9 Naturals. I used to buy mackerel too and feed eggs as well, but my dog doesn't like them so instead I occasionally give him fish oil capsules, and he gets 1-2 quail eggs when I buy packs for myself to eat. I'm actually thinking of raising some quail for both eggs and meat. Eggs for me, meat for him, but first I'd have to actually build a quail pen. I've even bought the materials, just haven't done the building part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I struggled all weekend to get Bruce to eat anything. He turned down raw and cooked mince, which came as a surprise as he would normally wolf it down. He then turned down sirloin steak (raw and cooked). Meanwhile I have been living off baked beans on toast. After work today I went into the butcher and got some of the pet mince that they do (minced chicken carcasses). At $4 per kg it is much more reasonable than what I have been feeding and it's passed the first test, he ate it. Hopefully he will do better on the new diet. I'll stick to the chicken mince for the moment, but will eventually introduce a bit of beef mince/hearts/kidney etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caper Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 My heart is breaking but yet so joyfull too to see someone do soooo much for a well loved pet. I sure hope you and Bruce can beat this! Take care, Caper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketman Posted June 8, 2012 Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 hey man, I've been following this closely from the start, I have very little to offer as far as advice or knowledge on the subject, But! What I do have is a HUGE respect for your efforts... Bruce is a very lucky lad indeed to have someone care for him so much... I wish more people had a 1/8th of the care you have for Bruce for their pets... Keep it up, you have A LOT of people cheering for ya... :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted June 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2012 thanks so much for all the support guys. Bruce has slipped a bit in the last few days. while the antibiotics seem to be dealing with the pneumonia, he has a lot of fluid buildup in his trachea and lungs. I took him back to the vet today and got some medication that will hopefully help him move the fluid. he's refusing to eat again, but hopefully once his new pills kick in he will have more of an appetite. i've gotta say it gets me pretty down when he's like this, but we've got through it before and i'm sure we can do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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