bjocque Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 hi chasps just getting new project together, a 5 foot FW tank (approx 365litres) and wondering about current thinking on whether to use a sump or not (have read both opinions) in a semi planted tank? i would be installing a co2 system at some stage, i love the idea of building my own filter system, i would prefer it over a store brought canister (probably a fx5), i know it'll probably cost more etc but I would have made it lol just seen the calfo systems, coooooooooooooooooooooooool anyway, just bouncing the idea out there to be laffed at lol cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayne Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 i would go sump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjocque Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 the lost of co2 is.......................... a.) minimal b.) manageable c.)who caresable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 i would go sump why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the-obstacle Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 why? I would go cannisters because you plug them in and they're away. Especially for a 3-400L tank. With a sump you're likely to add a lot more trouble than it's worth (unless you REALLY want to make something) whereas with the cannister you buy it and turn it on then concentrate on enjoying the tank. Personally I'm adding a sump to my tank because the 2x cf1200s only circulate the tank 3x or so and I need to double that. I can either buy 2 more or make a sump. I chose sump this time but next time I know which way I'll go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I wouldn't bother on a FW tank that small. Just 1-2 good cannisters, far simpler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 Yeah I would do externals on a tank that size too, probably only really worth the effort for a tank 500L+ if you don't already have an FX5 or other similar large filter to use.. Of course there will be nothing wrong with using a sump if you wanted the project just probably no real benefit to it. You could probably source a CF2400 for $300 (or cheaper second hand) or a couple of CF1200's.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjocque Posted May 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 uh huh, have my unfinished project in the garage which is a 3 footer that i had a sump for and was entertaining the idea of using the 3 footer to expand that sump into a bigger sump for the 5 footer. I ALWAYS over engineer, i can't help myself, its a condition that needs treatment lol........ where the 5 footers going to go isnt an issue for water changes/access to water etc looks like the 3 footer/sump and cabinet might just find its way out to the curb, @ least DDW will be happy-ish bugger, just thought theres a eheim 1260 sitting there too, that won't get the hoof lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 canister = expensive all in one comes with pluming need a few sump= can be done cheap, hides a lot of stuff, can over engineer, can flood I like sumps as increases "volume" can hide all teh misc. stuff and you can "mix and match" your outcomes a lot more. rememeber that mechanical filtration requires high volumes of turnover biological and SOME chemical filtration requires low volume turnover CO2 can be put inline in either and have seen some nice reactors of late that woudl work either/or Convert your 3 foot into a sump run canister on sump and have low volume sump to tank turnover in effect giving you an 8 ft tank which gives you more chemical stability.a light the sump and plant the bejessus out of it and use it as a refuge for or add a denytrifing coil and dont. Lots of options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayne Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 why? Because 1 you can fit more media in like, sponges, filter wool, bio-noodles and 2 hides things like heaters etc when i was running my sump the tank was always crystal clear, but with externals you still get the small particles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayne Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 sump= can be done cheap, hides a lot of stuff, can over engineer, can flood if you make it right it wont flood! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I love sumps as well because they are really good for filtration and hiding all the accessories, but in this case, I would have to agree that a canister is probably the better way to go. For 365L, your overflow must be pretty huge to be able to accommodate the large pump which gives you the insane hourly turnover you're after. And what people don't realise is just how much math goes into a sump design! I only have a sump because it came with the tank, I would never be able to calculate everything right myself. Even after buying the tank/ sump, it took me one wasted pump to get the flow rate correct, I now have a pump which is too powerful for the sump overflow sitting in my storage because I couldn't find a buyer lol. Even if you wanted to cram 50 fish into that 365L, I'm sure that an FX5 which is designed for 1500L will be more than sufficient for you. Save the sump for your (eventual) huge tank - trust me, it will come. :thup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 turn over isnt the be all and end all. It works well for mechanical filtartion but not chemical biological filtration. In a planted tank with sump you would only be looking perhaps for lower turn over anyway. In that case the sump then comes with benifits of volume, extra media, no accessories like heaters and the like in the tank even your CO2 can go inline or in sump But for a tank that size why filter at all go filterless and let your thermaclines move your water. then you can just do water changes and add chemicals and light as you need money you save can be used for nice plants and fishes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 12, 2011 Report Share Posted May 12, 2011 I have a sump on a 300L 4' tank and the benefits are just the same as on a larger tank; more capacity, no equipment in tank, cheaper etc. I wouldn't bother on much smaller tanks, but it really does depend on the intended purpose of the tank. If you're serious enough about plants to be installing a CO2 system I'd think long and hard about a sump as the increased disturbance/aeration isn't really what you want. It is possible to design it to minimise that, but IMO if you can use inline heaters with the canister then I'd just go for that option. Alternately you could still put a weir in the corner of the tank and drill it if you decide to run a sump later on (future-proofing is always a good idea!) and block the hole off then you'll have somewhere to put the heater and big ugly FX5 intake where its not visible in the tank, and you'll have the added benefit of the filter skimming the top of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I like the external because the tank is in my lounge and I want it to be quiet and with minimal humidity. For larger tanks I use sumps because it is easier to move large amounts of water but planted tanks have their own issues. I am using an FX5 on a 6ft high tech planted tank now and am just about to add a second one because there are too many dead spaces in water circulation (preventing good flow of nutrients around the plants - an FX5 full of media does not have the water turnover that it would if it was empty - also, plants not only block the filter with mulm but they also interfere with the flow of water around the tank). The increased surface area from a sump will only slightly affect CO2 levels, but if your weir is especially turbulent you will get significant loss from that. Combine that with 5-15% loss from most airline tubing and your CO2 efficiency is probably decreased about 35-40% so you would need to have your CO2 gas flow rate up to reach optimal levels in the tank and that would mean refilling the cylinder more frequently (probably every 3-4 months for a 5lb cylinder with that size tank). Not impossible though, there are usually solutions to any problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 I like the external because the tank is in my lounge and I want it to be quiet and with minimal humidity. For larger tanks I use sumps because it is easier to move large amounts of water but planted tanks have their own issues. I am using an FX5 on a 6ft high tech planted tank now and am just about to add a second one because there are too many dead spaces in water circulation (preventing good flow of nutrients around the plants - an FX5 full of media does not have the water turnover that it would if it was empty - also, plants not only block the filter with mulm but they also interfere with the flow of water around the tank). The increased surface area from a sump will only slightly affect CO2 levels, but if your weir is especially turbulent you will get significant loss from that. Combine that with 5-15% loss from most airline tubing and your CO2 efficiency is probably decreased about 35-40% so you would need to have your CO2 gas flow rate up to reach optimal levels in the tank and that would mean refilling the cylinder more frequently (probably every 3-4 months for a 5lb cylinder with that size tank). Not impossible though, there are usually solutions to any problem. Easier, cheaper and more effective ways to add flow than a new $500 filter if all you want is a bit of current. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Yeah, I tried all the powerheads and a small canister but I decided I needed more mechanical filtration. Plus, I got a really good deal. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zayne Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Easier, cheaper and more effective ways to add flow than a new $500 filter if all you want is a bit of current. $500 for a sump are you getting a gold plated one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ_Loach Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Sumps are good but only necessary on heavily stocked or high bio load aquariums as it effectively increases the amount of water in your system. Also popular with display tanks as all equipment can be hidden easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 $500 for a sump are you getting a gold plated one? I think the $500 was referring to the FX5 haha, in which case, where can I get the same deal?? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 $500 for a sump are you getting a gold plated one? Since when are FX5s sumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ_Loach Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Trademe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally07 Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Trademe Woo! I saw some on special recently, I think they were going for $700 and thought that was a good price, but $500 is even better! Now.. All I need is an excuse to get an FX5.. :slfg: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Even better if you know the right people (or have a good relationship with your LFS). 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GZ_Loach Posted May 13, 2011 Report Share Posted May 13, 2011 Alot of them seem to be around $580, I remember when they first came out there was a special deal for FNZAS members ($550) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.