cracker Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Where does geobacter come into aquarium situations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 With iron oxide/hydroxide. (rust) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 And.....you are saying Rust pulls PO4......what does the geobacter do though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 It is true that it is difficult to reliably measure levels that low with hobbyist test kits. As I stated in the article, at 0.03 ppm I couldn't detect any color with the Salifert kit. Richard Harker The Merck/deltec tst kit is a laboratory grade professional test kit which is obtainable from deltec but generally too expensive for the avearge hobbyist, the second recommended test kit is the one manufactured by Salifert,which is also sensitive at a low range but still makes it difficult to differentiate between the colours due to the poor optical clarity of the sample containers. STUART BERTRAM bsc hons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 the Aquamedic stuff I have seen is a zeolite IS this not based on aluminium oxide. i thought aluminium is bad for your tank. is aluminium a big part of zeolite. can anyone confirm?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Well I'll confirm it for you, although I am sure you already know that Just for the record, Seachem phosguard, an aluminium based product, has been demonstrated to leach aluminium into salt water http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/ ... 3/chem.htm . But although zeovit rock has been independently studied, have yet to see one that conclusively showed that it leached aluminum.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thanks for that wasp. i did not know that . The reason i asked is that i was reading the Rowaphos advert and it said that some phostphate removers are iron based and aluminium based and it had zeolite in brackets, so i assume that zeolite has aluminum in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Actually this is something I would like to investigate further myself. Anybody know where or how I could have water tested for aluminium? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 why niot email the guys from the advanced article, I am sure they have thought of this and may well have tested even if not published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Randy, the author, has actually been asked about that, but it does appear the work is not available. I was thinking of running a test using the same procedure used to test the phosguard, all I need is a means to reliably test the water before and after for aluminium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Zeolites are Aluminium Silicate based minerals, which often have heavy contamination from iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodle Posted January 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Actually this is something I would like to investigate further myself. Anybody know where or how I could have water tested for aluminium? There are quite a few people that can do that for you byt the likes of DSR are probaly the easiest to find ( cost might be an issue though) Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 agriqual in auck do mineral tests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 19, 2005 Report Share Posted January 19, 2005 Thanks. I'll ring around and see what I can organise. By the way, I'm not testing to see what zeolite is. That is known. Rather more though than what Iduncan mentioned. I'm testing to see if it will leach aluminium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 oh and a year ago they brought this really pretty chemical testing machine that cost a million dollars, they didnt let me play with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 as an aside, if it does leach Al, would it not quickly form Al oxide or other things? how toxic are they, will the leach process be so slow that regular water changes flush anyway? I guess I am asking what the equation is and how fast the reaction will occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Yes, if it leached aluminium it would be a concern, that is why I want to test it. However now it's looking like I'm saying this may be a problem, not the case at all, there is no published evidence that this is happening, and the kind of problems one would expect from leaching of aluminium, such as a negative effect on leathers, particularly Fiji yellow sarcophyton, I have never seen reported. So rather than be alarmist the product should currently be regarded as safe in this respect. I have been using zeovit for 4 months now and the organisms I have that are succeptable to aluminium poisoning are doing fine, extending fully and very healthy. I'm just going to test for it, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Maybe you should test for iron at the same time, and hydrogen sulfide as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 No need to test those. It is already published that zeovit rock will leach iron in quantities likely beneficial to a aquarium. Hydrogen Sulphide is a non issue, it is possible it may not or may be produced in tiny quantities, proportionately of little / no consequence against the amount that will likely be getting produced in the anearobic zones of any properly functioning reef tank. Also I am interested in the zeovit rock in particular, not zeolite in general of which there are many types, for different purposes. Also, just incase there is still anybody who thinks zeolite is not useful for phosphate removal, here is some info:- http://pubwww.srce.hr/ftbrfd/41-157.pdf Summary The objective of this study was to achieve better efficiency of phosphorus removal in an enhanced biological phosphorus removal process by upgrading the system with different amounts of natural zeolite addition. The system performance for synthetic wastewater containing different carbon sources applied at different initial concentrations of phosphorus, as well as for municipal wastewater, was investigated. Natural zeolite addition in the aerobic phase of the anaerobic/aerobic bioaugmented activated sludge system contributed to a significant improvement of phosphorus removal in systems with synthetic wastewater and fresh municipal wastewater. Improvement of phosphorus removal with regard to the control reactors was higher with the addition of 15 than with 5 g/L of natural zeolite. In reactors with natural zeolite addition with regard to the control reactors significantly decreased chemical oxygen demand, ammonium and nitrate, while higher increment and better-activated sludge settling were achieved, without changes in the pH-values of the medium. It was shown that the natural zeolite particles are suitable support material for the phosphate-accumulating bacteria Acinetobacter calcoaceticus (DSM 1532), which were adsorbed on the particle surface, resulting in increased biological activity of the system. The process of phosphorus removal in a system with bioaugmented activated sludge and natural zeolite addition consisted of: metabolic activity of activated sludge, phosphorus uptake by phosphate-accumulating bacteria adsorbed on the natural zeolite particles and suspended in solution, and phosphorus adsorption on the natural zeolite particles. Key words: Acinetobacter calcoaceticus, activated sludge, bioaugmentation, natural zeolite, phosphorus removal, wastewater Maybe is Acinetobacter calcoaceticus in zeobak aditions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 No need to test those. It is already published that zeovit rock will leach iron in quantities likely beneficial to a aquarium. Hydrogen Sulphide is a non issue, it is possible it may not or may be produced in tiny quantities, proportionately of little / no consequence against the amount that will likely be getting produced in the anearobic zones of any properly functioning reef tank. I disagree when rust is involved. Maybe is Acinetobacter calcoaceticus in zeobak aditions Does it matter? I though we already agreed that dosing bacteria to a tank will not be beneficial. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 its like a good tennis match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I disagree when rust is involved. Layton Sorry but I cannot be bothered running through that again. Much of what you need to know about the benefits of iron can be found in these 2 studies http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/chem.htm and http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/oct2002/chem.htm Does it matter? I though we already agreed that dosing bacteria to a tank will not be beneficial. Layton Really you do get everything I say confused/ twisted/ screwed up. What I said was the tank can run on the ordinary bacteria that are there, but with zeovit we dose a culure of the best bacteria to keep the balance tilted in the best direction. To put it plainly, I did not agree that dosing bacteria to a tank will not be beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Wasp, I'm not talking about iron ions, i'm talking about hydrated iron oxide, and the bacteria which eat it. The best bacteria for the job are already in your tank. If you continually have to add a particular bacteria strain, it means that it is NOT the best bacteria. You can't tilt the balance without causing trouble. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 How do you think iron ions will end up? It begins with R and I tilt the balance - no trouble Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.