ichthus Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hi all In my 110 liter community aquarium I was concerned about some plants. The star grass and blue hydro are going okay, as are the crypts - but the java fern has started to turn black at the base as if leaves are rotting, and the ambulia is turning brown at the bottom - but still fine at the top. I think I have sufficient lights (28 watts total, pink and white arcadia bulbs) and I add nutrafin plant stuff once a week. SO...I've added a DIY CO2 bottle to see what happens. I just used the old drink bottle/sugar/yeast idea - and have attatched it to the venturi inlet on my Eheim Pickup Filter to try and disperse the bubbles...now I play the waiting game to see if it disperses okay, it produces a good amount (not too much or too little), and if I haven't screwed something up! Oh yeah...and waiting to see if it actually helps the plant. The tap water is SO SOFT I always add a teaspoon of baking soda to every 20 liter water change...and I can still only get a KH of 2 or 3 degrees. I'll let you know if anything happens. I'm nervous - but I'm sure the more experienced here don't think this is a big deal! Anyway - just sharing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 For 110L 28 watts of light is not sufficient. You should aim for at least 80 watts of light. If you're really wanting to get serious with plants then 200watts would be great. You'd need to dose more ferts but it would be worth it. A couple of bottles of DIY CO2 would probably be needed if you wanted to go for a higher-tech setup though. I'm supprised that the star grass is doing well, but the Crypts and Blue Hygro can tolerate low lighting levels though, so that doen't supprise me that they're fine. Java Fern and Ambulia should be fine in a low-light setup also; so I'm not sure what's going wrong there. I'm sure others who are experienced should be able to give you some advice about that problem though. Soft water is GOOD. Plants do best in soft water. A pH of 5-7 is ideal for growing plants. How soft is the tap water? What is "Nutrifin Plant Stuff"? If is is fertiliser, it probably should be dosed at least every three days, but more often is better. My tank is 150L with 100watts of light and I dose Flourish Excel every day or every second day. I should also really be using Flourish Comprehensive too but I can't be bothered to buy any :lol: I don't think you should bother with the baking soda. Maybe that's the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichthus Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thanks for the reply... yeah, I'm not really trying to go hi-tech...hence the easier plants (or so I thought). I have had one PH crash previously, so the baking soda is to avoid another, especially with the added CO2. Lost 2 fish last time...I think because PH went 7.2 to 6.0 almost overnight. Nutrafin Plant Gro is the stuff - the bottle says to dose weekly. And yep, I'm trying to avoid the daily doses of the expensive stuff like Excel...again, that determined my plant selection. The java fern was going great - pearling, then when older leaves where removed (after pearling) the rest started to die...maybe that was it? Hmm...I was afraid it may be the light. The tank is tall-ish (52cm), and so I wondered if that's why the bottom of the ambulia was suffering. I guess I could try another 2 foot light on top (tank is 62 wide)...but was trying the cheaper options first. Thanks again for the advice. I may have to start saving (or remove plants and go for another look). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichthus Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 What is "Nutrifin Plant Stuff"? If is is fertiliser, it probably should be dosed at least every three days, but more often is better. My tank is 150L with 100watts of light and I dose Flourish Excel every day or every second day. I should also really be using Flourish Comprehensive too but I can't be bothered to buy any Don't confuse these products, Nutrifin plant grow is micro-nutirents, mostly Iron, your plant fertiliser is really Nitrate (from the filter) although most Micro-nutirent bottles are labled "fert". Excel is organic carbon, you would use this instead of your DIY CO2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Wow what an awesome tank Yeah I definately think it is the lighting that is causing the problems. Maybe you could try and fit 4x T5HO tubes on top of the tank? If you do decide to, just get the Aqua One tubes - they are cheap and your plants will be fine with the spectrum. I would go for 2x Sunlight (6,700K I think) and 2x Tropical (15,000K. These are the pink tubes). Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichthus Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Thanks again Joe using the venturi thing seems to be working, it is dispensing the CO2 as tiny bubbles that don't head straight for the surface. Yes - it seems the conventional wisdom is that my lighting isn't enough. I've looked on Trade Me and found units as you described, but they're a little out of my range right now - but at least I know what I'm looking for. I thought about just adding another unit to the current arcadia one - but the arcadia unit heats up a fair bit, and it's all under a wooden hood so I wouldn't think adding more heat would be a winner. I'll keep saving - and may move a plant or two out. Cheers. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Your tank looks good. The ambulia is growing well at the tips which is a good sign that things are doing well - it is a great 'bell weather' plant for that reason. The base does tend to get straggly and can rot if it is clumped together too much so it is helpful to pinch off the healthy tops and replant them. How long has the Java fern been in there? Sometimes it can go through a shock, the leaves can rot, but it will usually come back with new leaves if the nutrients are in balance. The new leaves will be used to the conditions. Java fern grows very well in low light. If you add more light, you will need to balance it with more carbon (Excel or CO2) and more nutrients (micronutrients and macronutrients). The only reason to add more light is to get faster plant growth but the risks of that include a greater possibility for algae problems. In short, there is no need to add more light unless you want the plants to grow faster, and are prepared for the extra work of a higher tech tank. Your tank is just fine as it is. Now that you have good CO2, you might consider adding a good balanced fertilising programme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichthus Posted February 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 Hmm - thanks Jennifer. To be honest, I am trying to keep things simple as I'm still new to this and have to feed 4 kids as well as the fish! So I appreciate your insights. No, not really after super fast growth, just healthy plants. So CO2 is going...perhaps I need to work on the fertilising as you suggest. I'm doing the Nutrafin Plant Gro (20mils once a week). Suphew mentioned this was micro-nutrients. My nitrates always test at 0...the plants gobble it all up or due to the weekly 20% water changes? That's about all I do... Only other thing I can think of is the salt. I add tonic salt occassionally as I heard it's beneficial for the fish. But then, I'd also heard Java Fern survives in brackish water...so should salt annoy it? Anyway, maybe I just need to stop fiddling. Ambulia has hit the top and needs a trim, just waiting for the hydro to cover the heater/filter. Thanks for all the help - always open to new ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 15, 2011 Report Share Posted February 15, 2011 No need to add salt. It is beneficial in some circumstances to treat illness but it can cause some stress to purely freshwater fish if they have to live in it long term. It is safer not to add it unless you need it. Weekly 20% water changes are good if you have a planted tank with low light. Suphew is exactly correct about the micronutrients and adding them will help the plants a lot. If your nitrates are zero, the plants will be limited in their growth (at its worst, that can show up as deficiencies in the plants or it can result in algae getting a bit of a foothold). You might be ok with minimal nitrates, but you will see better growth if you add a bit of macronutrient. Macros are NPK = nitrate, phosphate & potassium. You don't need much if you have low lights, but some will certainly help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichthus Posted February 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Cool - so in the interest of adding Macros - I've seen on Trade Me a guy who makes up a mix, seems to be a reasonable price too. I wonder if that would be good or too much for my little tank. (I read your sticky on plants too Jennifer - helped me a lot) The link is here. http://www.trademe.co.nz/Pets-animals/Fish/Aquatic-plants/auction-353507568.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 There are heaps of different methods for fertilising. I personally like to add micros and macros separately rather than all in one go. Depending on the tank, the plants will use them at different rates. The more you separate them out, the more control you have if things go wrong. For instance, I usually mix my NPK (nitrates, phosphates and potassium) together in one bottle so I only have to dose macros from one bottle but now I am getting green spot algae in a couple of my tanks and it is because I need to add slightly more phosphates - but I don't want to also add more nitrates (the levels are good for that) so now I have to mix up some phosphates in a separate bottle so that I can add more phosphate without also adding more nitrates. The more you become familiar with your system, the more control you may want over it...I guess that is true for many things. So, no right or wrong answers there. Just experiment and see what works for your tank. Keep in mind, your tank is low light, so your plants won't have a huge demand for nutrients and it will take a couple of weeks for them to adjust to the new available nutrients in the water column once you begin adding fertilisers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ichthus Posted February 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well - the CO2 seems to be working, at least as far as the ambulia and stargrass is concerned...it's already started shooting off rapidly. But the java fern has been taken out of the tank as it was dropping leaves quite quickly, and littering the rest of the tank. I've put it in my quarantine tank, and will see how it goes. I may be the first person in the world to fail at growing java fern!! Dang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 I've had java that's done really well before, but one time I had heaps of trouble with it rotting and not growing back at all. So you're not the the only one 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordayzbro Posted February 21, 2011 Report Share Posted February 21, 2011 Well - the CO2 seems to be working, at least as far as the ambulia and stargrass is concerned...it's already started shooting off rapidly. But the java fern has been taken out of the tank as it was dropping leaves quite quickly, and littering the rest of the tank. I've put it in my quarantine tank, and will see how it goes. I may be the first person in the world to fail at growing java fern!! Dang. TBH I've failed at growing Java fern.... :roll: It does tend to 'die off' a little, then come back to life when added into new conditions. Once established it's one of the best looking plants around IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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