Ira Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Ok, new plan, I'm going to make a tank with miracle mud, zeovit, a DSB, dose with vodka and use a plenum. I'll have the most awesome tank ever!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 WHat about the skimmer IRA?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 That's funny Ira!! :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I am very interested in MM. Not for the MM system itself, just for the fact that I think skimmerless is the 'ultimate'. Little doubt that skimmerless tanks have better success with things like gonaopora (sp?), gorgonians, lps (catiphillia) etc. Going skimmerless/MM is probably better suited to the more hardcore/experanced reefkeeper (that counts me out, eh Alois?), where as a skimmered system (hybrid berlin method) is far more likley to succed, particulary succeed from the excess a new reeker tends to do (over feed, change everything in the tank regulary, hands in tank alot, over stock etc). Good luck with it. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Ohhh IRA, that plenum is a hoax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Skimmer systems due seem to have more margin for error than MM . However it is all untested in NZ , so i will be able to find out soon. Keeping gonaopora is not problem at all, my 3 are going very well, i think it is more a myth that you cant keep them long term.. It comes down to the species?. I agree some are very hard to keep. but so far i have had no problems at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 have your thought of using mangroves?? or do the manufacturers specify the algae/plant you need to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Magnroves are not particularly useful in removing the nutrients we are trying to remove. Plus they grow too big. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 what nutrients are you trying to remove?? other than phosphate and nitrates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Those are the two. Mangroves are not big nitrate users from the studies I have read. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 is it the algae cheato or caluerpa that will use nitrates or something in the MM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 caluerpa will use nitrates, (not as much per mass as freshwater plants/algae), but more than mangroves, it also grows faster, so you are removing more per kg, and more volume for a particular time than you would with mangroves. However, I think the biggest consumer of nitrates will be the mud itself acting as a DSB. DSB's are extremely effective in reducing nitrates. Caluerpa will consume phosphates, most importantly it will use organic phosphates, rather than orthophosphates which most test kits actually measure. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted January 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 Day 10 update on MM. Tank started to show signs of diatoms all over the glass and sump. algae growing well , however have had some die off. Corals looking good and acros are open all the time. will post updated pics in a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted February 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Miracle mud update 5/2/2005 Its been 1 month since i started. here are updated photos of the algae which is starting to grow fast , but the hot weather has slowed it a bit as my tank has been sitting at 30c almost every day, so far all coral still look great. The Algae in the photo has overtaken the mexicana. still dont know what type it is. Cyno is going as it was looking getting bad, but this is normal when starting MM Deltec skimmer which has 4 pumps it still only running 1 pump only Mud sump lights still run 24/7 test results today are Nitrate 2ppm phostphate .19ppm so not much change Algae at 7/1/2005 algae at 5/2/2005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 First time I have read this thread front to back. Interesting topic. Will be good to see the results. The link to the German web site was impressive. No skimmer? WICKED. I reckon it must be involving autotrophic de nitrifying bacteria within the MM. (Maybe heaps more effectively than a DSB. The large amount of Aluminium could be associated with the clarity. (Aluminium sulphate is a pool floculant which grabs and binds extremely small particles into large lumps that can be mechanically filtered or siphoned). And the large amount of Iron could be involving the other metal eating bacterias that Layton was chatting about earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 I am running quite a large amount of Caulerpa also and the stuff grows like crazy simply sitting in a bare glass dam which overflows directly into the sump. But I am still struggling to get the DOCS lower in comparison to the waste that is being produced from the water column. I wonder where the silicon/quartz comes into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Reef, I have another type of algae in my sump that grows like a mother $%#^@# and may benefit your sump if you want to give it a go. Grows heaps faster than mexicana and the Sawtooth. It looks like little teardrops. Will post a pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 I wonder where the silicon/quartz comes into it. Think DSB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Hey PIES, your post on saying that Skimming is an natural is not quite true either, (If thats what you meant). The crashing of the waves and white tops creates heaps of foaming action which ends up on beaches. As seen on a very stormy day. I still think Skimming is imperative. Just my thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Go on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Typical grain size of silica sand seems to be good for efficient DSB action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Ahh... I also notice the high amount of potassium in the mix. This will be assisting the faster growth of the algae. A mojor source of fertiliser products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 Another intersting thing to think about is the relesae of green DOCS from the caulerpa. If you sit some in a bowl for a couple of minutes, green DOCS leach almost instanly into the bowl. This cant be good returning to the main tank. They state the mud somehow removes this. HOW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 5, 2005 Report Share Posted February 5, 2005 I wonder if bacteria can consume these as in the second stage of bioballs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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