suphew Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 The reason details sometimes seem to a bit lacking is because there is so much to explain, to much for a short posting like this. some times it is better to tell someone something (like add a sump) then let them research the details then ask questions for details they dont understand, all the info is out there online just needs to be looked up. Regarding the comment above, bio balls are bad in marine, they convert nitrite to nitrate which is bad for corals, live rock on the other hand removes nitrate which is why ppl keep saying "add more rock". I have slowly removed all the foam etc filters from my tank and now have 0 nitrate. I used to run a canister filter and foam on all my pumps and had high nitrate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Usually the first section (were the tank water returns into the sump) is were you put your bio balls, Rock, or what have you, this were your bacteria will grow and live and act as your filter. The reason bio balls or Rock (a really porus rock is recomended) is used is becuase of the large surface area, more surface area more bacteria, better filtration. I don't think this is particualry accurate or even reccomended. Bioballs/filter wool etc will create huge aerobic bacterria counts with no anerobic bacterria, helping convert amonia and nitrite to nitrate but never prescipitating the nitrate, infact its probably inaccurate to call this system a filter as all it does is chemical conversion but removes nothing. Bio-balls or any other 'filter media' are going to cause un-nessessarly high counts of Nitrates. Best to use the sump as 'extra water volume' and a place to store equipment as stated. Baffles etc as pictured can be very usefull but is doesn't need to be that complex. On REEFCENTRAL.COM etc their are dozens if not hundreds of people using plastic containers as sumps with a submersiable pump in it. Will work just as well as a 'fancy' glass sump, be 10x cheaper and much easier to drill if you ever have to/want to. Just use a plastic bin/bucket and 'ta da' a sump is born. Good luck, doing research, listening to lots of peoples opnions and ideas before embarking on your own project is the best way to go. Good luck pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Now someone needs to explain, what you need to do to the main tank to get the water transfer from there into the sump, cuz i dont even get that bit? Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Shae - Build an overflow box or weir. I prefur using an overflow box with a durso standpipe. Pictures and info on my 'first look at new setup' thread, and my other thread building a new tank with the SCWD thread. also Chimera thread on 'building a sump room' has pics of his overflow box, comb and durso. If you still don't understand search the internet for 'overflow box'. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I should have had you take a closer look at the overflow on my tank while you were there. It's pretty simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Yeah i was interested, but i also wanted to see all your other gear. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I'm in the same spot as you almost. I managed to find a 30l rubbish bin that is about the biggest container, I can fit in my cabinet. This would give me enough room to put my skimmer, return pump and heater and also a few kg of rock. Only problem is I cant get the water out of the tank safety to run it. Make sure you decide if you are going to do a sump before you do anything. My tank is already set up and am now finding out the benefits I could have if I could have set one up. My other half wont let me drill the tank inside full of water so that idea is now out the window. Only other option is a syphon which can be risky, but am still looking at doing once I can find some acrylic to make it from. If you have polished floors (tongue and groove) rather than drill big holes through it you could cut a piece out between the joists and put a temporary piece in with the holes drilled. then when you move you can replace the piece of good timber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 My other half wont let me drill the tank inside full of water so that idea is now out the window. Only other option is a syphon which can be risky, but am still looking at doing once I can find some acrylic to make it from. A syphon will not work, it will lead to leaks and plumbing accidents, garanteed. You do have another non-drilling option, that is a weir. Have a search on Reefcentral.com for picutres. You can make your own if your handy or buy one from the internet, I think TUNZE make them so REEF may be able to source one for you. Don't be to concerned with putting rock in your sump, you don't need it. More rock is good but not essential. Just put your heaters, filter media (carbon, phosphate resin etc), return pump,skimmer in there to start with. A bin or bucket will be just fine. Sumps can be confusing, and its hard to explain whats needed. One thing to keep in mind is that EVERYONES sump here is different, different design, size and configuration. None are right or wrong, but the only way to really know what you want to do, is to build one yourself. You second one will be heaps better than your first Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 You second one will be heaps better than your first amen to that. you can look and research all you want but untill youve make a sump you dont realise whats good or bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 reef gave me a good link a little while ago. it is just a wide syphon with weirs to keep the syphon primed. it looks like it would work ok. Not sure if my return pump is big enough though. I have an 800l/hr pump that will probably do 500-600lph once it is headed up. would this be enough? I'm not keen on getting yet another pump. I am probably going to have a go at making one once I have some acrylic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 6, 2005 Report Share Posted January 6, 2005 Id be very interested in this, could i plz have the url. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Look down the page a bit. I started a string, how do you set up sump for existing tank. Reef posted it all on there. I have just built one of these weirs today basically from this design. have just tested it for leaks and will look to possibly install it tomorrow. Have run some water through it and it looks to be working ok. Just need to install the air outlet hose on the top, which will have a thin hose running down to a powerhead inlet for suction and the bulkhead for the outlet, which I will do today. Was very easy to make and I got all the acrylic cut to the sizes I wanted plus some glue for $20 I will let you know how it goes and possibly put up some photos when I learn how. I am only doing this method because my tank is already set up and I dont want to drill hole in it. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Here is a Weir. Actually, it is very clever. A syphon, and yet proofed against getting airlocked in the event of a power failure or similar. Don't have to follow the exact specs of this article, just follow the general principles. I think should even be possible to make one out of pipes only. http://www.melevsreef.com/acrylics/overflow.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Quiet clever, i might have to look at biulding one for my nano, would be far better for me rather than drilling a whole in the tank. Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 I suppose that every now and then you would have to bleed any air which becomes trapped in the top. Now doubt micro bubbles will collect up there? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 What some people do is install a bleeder, but connect it to one of their powerheads, so it is bled continuously and never needs special attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 I've built one of these and had it on my tank for the better part of a year. It worked great. I did place a nipple at the top and connected it to a venturi. Without this, it did lose its suction quite a few times, even without the power going out. :evil: With the nipple/venturi, no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 I was testing mine in the bath yesterday. I have installed the bleeder nipple and tube, but found that it basically kept draining through the hose and when I stopped the inlet flow the bleeder hose kept going until the syphon was lost. So if you have it hooked up at a powerhead like Melev indicated, how do you stop the flow once the powerhead stops? Essentially it will be sucking a low flow of water continueously unless I'm missing something How did you hook yours up to the venturi? After my test yesterday I'm not keen on running the hose below the weir with any suction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 That overflow box looks complicated. Drilling a hole in the tank isnt that hard according to the guy at the LFS. Sorta on this topic, does anyone have any good links for saltwater n00bs?? I'm thinking about setting one up, if I can convince my partner to let me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 Chris, the bleeder tube is meant to be fitted to the venturi of a powerhead, below the tank waterline. Provided it is below the waterline, their will be no way for air to enter, power off or not. Having said that, I'd have to concur with David, can be more complex than drilling the tank. However, if drilling for some reason is not possible, then this system, set up right, is almost foolproof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 I am aware of that. I am not concerned about air getting in, I am concerned about the water syphoning out of the weir. In my test in the bath I had the hose lying down on the bottom of the bath about 1ft below the weir. as there was no air in it, it was acting as a syphon and as I turned the tap off for the flow through the weir, The syphon in the weir drained until the water went below the priming weir which means the syphon effect it lost. Really, this bleeder hose should have static flow and only allow air to excape and not water. I am tempted to have the hose raised above the tank by 100mm or so (enough that it doesnt suck the water out) then attach it to the venturi inlet hose for my skimmer with a tee junction. this would always act to suck air out if it is there. I cant see how you would stop the syphon effect from the powerhead once the power goes off unless you have it raised enough that the water only heads up a bit in the tube, like I have said above. Is this what you have done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 In a tank situation there will be no siphon from the bleeder through the powerhead if the power goes out. It would be like filling a tube with water and lifting the middle out of the water, with the two ends still submerged. There is no water flowing through the tube. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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