lf ideas

[Zdoda]

Hi all,

looking for ideas on what african cichlids i should put in my tank, tank is 1000ltrs with sump and fx5 too go.

Now i was looking into getting frontosa/tropheus and i may still go down this track, but curious as too what other various fish i haven't thought of.

i have another tank with red empress/ice blue/elec yellow/bumble bee/ blue zebra/peach/auratus so pref none of those again :lol:

Any suggestions welcomed greatly

also South American cichlids open too that suggestion too .

[malevolentsparkle]

south american dwarfs with angels or discus? a whole lot of apistos would look awesome all with their own teritories

[DennisP]

I quite like the idea of a lot of apistos, although the mix of colour might be a bit messy.

I like frontosia quite a lot too.

Personally I don't like africans that much, and although you might be able to fit a lot of africans in that tank, too many might make the tank end up looking smaller. Angels would be nice. Proper angels, not the cheap looking kois and marbled ones

With a large tank like that, you have heaps of options and also potential for a LOT of hiding spaces - which means more territories etc.

You could get large plecos which not too many people have because of space needed.

Arowana.

Larger agressive SA cichlids.

(I'm already thinking about how I would scape that tank :oops: )

I shall stop now.

[spoon]

i reckon a tank that big go with the biggest fish you can find like frontosa malawi eyebiters and livingstonii or giraffes maybe a few kadango

then some synodontis for bottom dwellers

[Zdoda]

i reckon a tank that big go with the biggest fish you can find like frontosa malawi eyebiters and livingstonii or giraffes maybe a few kadango

then some synodontis for bottom dwellers

Yeah great suggestions, going too go after a few days of contemplating what i would like too see in the tank are Frontosa + livingstonii and kadango + synodontis. And plus my water is already at 8.4 PH so perfect for africans.

Any recommendations on how many i could place into the tank?

And i think would be a hassle to try and balance the PH down for South americans, though got a spare tank laying around i'd be keen later down the track too set up a heavily planted tank for the Apistos, some of the pictures on google look amazing.

Does anyone locally keep/breed Apistos in auckland just so i can view and chat with

[malevolentsparkle]

And i think would be a hassle to try and balance the PH down for South americans

proper. pH. 6.5.

[phoenix44]

DO NOT USE pH ALTERING PRODUCTS. Plenty of info on here as to why you shouldn't.

[malevolentsparkle]

DO NOT USE pH ALTERING PRODUCTS. Plenty of info on here as to why you shouldn't.

so if the water is 8.4 he could put apistos in it?

[phoenix44]

No, that would be a silly choice of fish for those water parameters.

If you did need to go down the S. American route, drain the tank, take out any coral, cement etc and the water will settle at near neutral levels (or near enough). Add wood to lower the pH. Add soft water to reduce the KH.

[Joshlikesfish]

DO NOT USE pH ALTERING PRODUCTS. Plenty of info on here as to why you shouldn't.

+1

[ryanjury]

If your PH is already 8.4 then good to go with africans

Frontosa I would recommend 10 minimum with the view to thinning out to 2m and all the females you have, more if you can afford then because there is nothing worse than spending a few years growing them out and ending up with lots of males and having to do it again. The guy I put you onto is really good with his fronts and does sell them according to size so you are pretty likely to end up with a good ratio but still buying as many as you can would be good.

Kadangos are awesome in a bigger group so I would get 10 of them too, probably wont need to thin out males depending on how they get along. The livingstonii are really predatory and fast growing so while you could add the fronts/kadangos at the same time I would either add tiny livingstonii or add them when the fronts are maybe 7-8cm and find some 3-4cm livingstonii to avoid them growing too fast and eating the fronts.

[malevolentsparkle]

Add wood to lower the pH. Add soft water to reduce the KH

exactly how is doing that any better than using a shop bought product?

but yeah if the tank is already set up for africans and you like them then that would be the easier way to go. but if you already have some then it could get a bit boring?

[phoenix44]

exactly how is doing that any better than using a shop bought product?

you must use the search function. All the info is there.

Basically adding PH up or down etc temporarily alters the KH, GH and the pH; and does so immediately. When you do a WC without those additives the water will once again drop to the equilibrium levels. So you are looking at doing WCs and being permanently reliant on those products. That is not good.

Adding wood naturally decreases the pH as it works within the confines of the existing water conditions.

One is a treatment for the symptom and is temporary at best, and the other a solution to the problem. That is the difference.

[Joshlikesfish]

exactly how is doing that any better than using a shop bought product?

Those shop bought products are a disaster waiting to happen IMO

[ryanjury]

Add wood to lower the pH. Add soft water to reduce the KH.

This will only work if your KH is low you really need to start with soft water to end up with soft water..

[phoenix44]

That's why i said add soft water...

[malevolentsparkle]

So you are looking at doing WCs and being permanently reliant on those products. That is not good.

sure not the cheepest way but not really a problem as far as i see it.

Adding wood naturally decreases the pH as it works within the confines of the existing water conditions.

but when you do WCs the pH takes time to lower again... up down, up down. that's not good

[Joshlikesfish]

but when you do WCs the pH takes time to lower again... up down, up down. that's not good

Its the more natural way. The pH naturally fluctuates. If you really want to get water thats soft, you can catch rain water. Sometimes its too soft...

[phoenix44]

but when you do WCs the pH takes time to lower again... up down, up down. that's not good

It shouldn't and if it does it is likely that you are artificially altering the pH.

The water will form a natural buffer based on its Pka.

[malevolentsparkle]

The water will form a natural buffer based on its Pka.

did not know that natural buffers form, at least not with acidic water. that changes things.

It shouldn't and if it does it is likely that you are artificially altering the pH.

you seem to suggest that no buffers are involved, but with most products the buffers are very reliable, in fact its the buffers in proper pH that made me use it. stable pH=good was my thinking.

[phoenix44]

When you artificially alter your pH, the buffer does not magically shift to sit at the higher pH range. A buffer resists pH change, and once the pH is either artificially increased or decreased, it is susceptible to crashing / reverting back to its preferred range because the buffer zone has been unchanged.

That's the reason coral is used in african tanks to increase the pH. Take it out and the pH will go back down. Put it back in and the water will slowly increase in pH to a certain point as the water is hardened and the base overcomes the buffer.

It is possible to change the buffer range in water, but that requires making your own buffer solution and again, what a pain that is.

Having used the pH altering products in a commercial environment, I would never recommend them to any one. It's a disaster in a bottle.

[Mcculloch]

Wow can't remember Zdoda asking for a lesson in water chemistry thought they were asking for ideas for the new tank.

I think you should go for Tropheus and Multi Synodontis.

[Zdoda]

Wow can't remember Zdoda asking for a lesson in water chemistry thought they were asking for ideas for the new tank.

I think you should go for Tropheus and Multi Synodontis.

hahaha it's all good with the help people give me on here i don't mind it at all

I'll even add to this the only thing i add to my african tanks via water is the Cichlid lake salts (and that's probably also debatable if i even need it but i like adding it personally).

When i first started fish keeping i tried desperately to 'follow' everything i read by the rule, all i ended up doing was killing my fish dying due to messing with the PH. only once i spoke to a fellow fish keeper who suggested i try on all my tanks stop using PH Up/down. did my tank start to stabilize and fish last more than 3 months.

My coral has kept my PH always at a stable 8.4, I have never in the last couple years seen my PH go up nor down.

Yeah i love my Tropheus Dubious especially when they are young! So i may even throw some into the tank too and once they have all grown up separate them into individual tanks and keep the large tank for the Fronts.

loving the ideas too, keep them coming

[burrowssj]

just a heads up be very careful what you add to your tank. an use less than directed to test how it reacts..

[malevolentsparkle]

When you artificially alter your pH, the buffer does not magically shift to sit at the higher pH range. A buffer resists pH change, and once the pH is either artificially increased or decreased, it is susceptible to crashing / reverting back to its preferred range because the buffer zone has been unchanged.

maybe with the basic 'pH up' and 'pH down' products but proper pH for example says this:

Proper pH 6.5 is formulated to lock the pH at 6.5. Buffers compensate for fluctuations in pH, automatically adjusting the pH to the predetermined level. Proper pH 6.5 will lower or raise the pH until 6.5 is reached. pH will not rebound to the original level.

http://aquariumpharm.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=81

now I'm kinda just arguing for the sake of it now as you've already convinced me

ok Ill shut up about this now :lol: