Native Marine question

[FishBen]

I was thinking about setting up a native marine tank, and I was wondering if I'd need all the fancy expensive normal marine equipment for it, or just the basic filter/light/tank/sand. And the only differences from tropical is it being cold and saltwater!

No live rocks, corrals and stuff like that.

I have a limited knowledge of marine (limited being basically zilch), but I do know it's VERY expensive to set up a classic reef marine tank. Hence this option! Plus I'd quite like to have something different

So please, share your knowledge

edit: sorry wasn't sure if I should put this in natives or saltwater, hope it's OK here D:

[elusive_fish]

I'm a beginner with marine stuff, but as someone who has recently asked this question I can pass on what I've been told/read.

The challenge with keeping anything local is keeping it cool. Local marine fish are kept in something like 13-16 degree water, 18 on the heigh side. Rock pool inhabitants are far more used to warm temperatures (at least for a period of time) and water paramater changes and are a good bet to try. You might want to consider where in your house you would situate the tank and how hot that place can get.

After weighing up my options, I decided to go tropical marine - its much cheaper to get a heater than a chiller! (although local livestock is free and tropical is expensive!) What started as a simple change-the-water-type conversion for me has now cost me considerably more, mind you!

HTH

[livingart]

your first step is to read this

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23675

the next step is to have lots of patience

cold water marine takes longer to cycle than a tropical marine and both take longer to cycle than freshwater tanks

if you have access to fresh clean natural salt water (NSW) you can set a tank up from scratch by doing 2 x 25% or 1 x 50% water changes weekly

As to size of tank and the type. Basically the larger the tank the better (easier to keep water condition stable), and large surface area on the tank is better than a narrow deep tank

having a sump on the tank is better than canister filters, these can be used but may need the filter media washing in NSW frequently

you will need some clean coral rock as this is more porous and makes a good home for the beneficial bacteria and pods (that will help maintain your system) to live in. You can use live rock from a tropical marine tank but some of the bacteria etc. may die off.

will add more later

[Caryl]

Your biggest problem can be keeping it cool enough, especially in summer. We had to buy a chiller.

[livingart]

as Caryl and elusive fish have said keeping it cool is another must

a chiller can be an expensive purchase brand new, occasionally they come up for sale on auction sites or some of the saltwater sites in nz

there are some DIY ideas available on the internet

i have had my tanks at 20 - 22 degrees Celsius for awhile but they were rock pool species that could handle it

[FishBen]

Thanks a lot for the replies! Greatly helpful

The tank I have planned will not be large, only around 70 litres. I know it's better to have a larger tank, but I really don't have the space available, and it will make it harder to keep cool (without a chiller).

I agree keeping it cool will be one of the larger challenges I'll have..

I've had a couple ideas about keeping it cool (due to money and space being in short supply, a chiller isn't really an option), one was mounting a fan or two above it and another was keeping the tank to the side of a window, so if i opened it there would be a cool air flow circulating over the tank. Feedback would be appreciated!

Another challenge will be the water quality!

I can source some natural salt water fairly easily, but any specialist marine equipment, I think even just marine test kits/phosphate removing media will need to be ordered in from HFF or the like, since Nelson has ZERO Fish stores with marine support. :evil: I think the most I can get is a marine rated aqua one bulb!

Any stock will include rock pool inhabitants and any very small fish that i am lucky enough to catch and are legal to take.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

[Caryl]

My marine was a rock pool with critters gathered from the Kaikoura coast. They were used to 10 - 15C.

I did not have any equipment on the tank, except for a filter. It ran for almost 2 years until cooling it got to be too difficult (didn't buy a chiller until after the tank had been dismantled :roll: ). I still have the chiller sitting somewhere, never used it :lol: . I am sure I will set another cold marine up some day and use it then.

[FishBen]

My marine was a rock pool with critters gathered from the Kaikoura coast. They were used to 10 - 15C.

I did not have any equipment on the tank, except for a filter. It ran for almost 2 years until cooling it got to be too difficult (didn't buy a chiller until after the tank had been dismantled :roll: ). I still have the chiller sitting somewhere, never used it :lol: . I am sure I will set another cold marine up some day and use it then.

What kind of filter/media did you use? What about inside the tank? Just collected rocks or did you use liverock?

[spoon]

I can source some natural salt water fairly easily, but any specialist marine equipment, I think even just marine test kits/phosphate removing media will need to be ordered in from HFF or the like, since Nelson has ZERO Fish stores with marine support. :evil: I think the most I can get is a marine rated aqua one bulb!

Any stock will include rock pool inhabitants and any very small fish that i am lucky enough to catch and are legal to take.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

[FishBen]

your local stores will have some marine stuff other things they will be able to order in for you

pet mart does have some stuff ive seen it online also pets an all has marine stuff

Pet mart has some fake corals, basic marine lighting and marine salts. Oh and one pre-made aqua one marine tank for $2,000

I hasn't seen any marine stuff at Petz'nall (if we're talking about the same store) apart from their 2 marine display tanks, but I could be wrong.

I could try asking about parts being ordered in if the need arises, though i've had bad responses to that in the past..

[spoon]

petmart has seio flow pumps and quite a few other things online but perhaps not on display . it has been a couple of yearssince i was last in nelson so they may have had more then. the best fish shop that was ever up there was in brooklyn just out of motueka but that has been closed for years

[FishBen]

petmart has seio flow pumps and quite a few other things online but perhaps not on display . it has been a couple of yearssince i was last in nelson so they may have had more then. the best fish shop that was ever up there was in brooklyn just out of motueka but that has been closed for years

It seems all the Nelson fish stores are drying up, especially the one in town.. They don't even have stress coat at the moment, and half of their tanks are empty x.x Meanwhile the Richmond store only ever orders in gourami/guppy/angels/etc. Really disappointing especially considering there seems to be a ton of fishkeepers in Nelson!

[elusive_fish]

I can source some natural salt water fairly easily

I know you've got a small tank, but keep in mind collecting NSW will likely get very tiresome. I'm partly saying that to myself, as I was convinced i would happily do my water changes with NSW and i recently collected 50 odd litres to cycle my rock in and even small amount was a pain the a^%. Or maybe im just doing it the wrong way?

[FishBen]

I know you've got a small tank, but keep in mind collecting NSW will likely get very tiresome. I'm partly saying that to myself, as I was convinced i would happily do my water changes with NSW and i recently collected 50 odd litres to cycle my rock in and even small amount was a pain the a^%. Or maybe im just doing it the wrong way?

How much percent did you need to change, and how often?

[elusive_fish]

I'm currently fresh water testing my tank ie haven't done any water changes yet. My water change regimen will depend on whether I can spring for a protein skimmer or not, as this will help me cut down on them. I have a 240L + sump tank, so 20% for me is a heckuva lot worse than it is for you. I don't mean to discourage you from the NSW water change thing, just keep in mind you may find it to be a pain in future

[FishBen]

Was just wondering if I'd need to do water changes more often than I would for a freshwater tank, which is like 25% weekly, that's all

[elusive_fish]

25% weekly sounds like a good water change to me, but LA indicated in his first reply that you may need to do that twice a week. Of course it depends on stocking levels and feeding etc

[FishBen]

25% weekly sounds like a good water change to me, but LA indicated in his first reply that you may need to do that twice a week. Of course it depends on stocking levels and feeding etc

Yeah sounds normal Won't go putting a school of snapper or something ridiculous in there

[Caryl]

I obviously did it all wrong then :roll: :lol:

We had a 3ft tank. We took several barrels down the coast and filled them with water, rocks and any critter we could catch. This included shrimps, anemones, rockfish, triplefins, brittlestars, chitons, sea cucumber, various starfish, and a hermit crab.

We had an AquaClear filter hanging off one end.

The tank was topped up occasionally with fresh water and once every few months we went to Rarangi Beach and got fresh sea water. We also added sea lettuce. This always had lots of microscopic critters stuck in it for food for the inhabitants.

That's it. All were happy. We had no deaths except for a baby octopus that escaped.

[livingart]

25% weekly sounds like a good water change to me, but LA indicated in his first reply that you may need to do that twice a week. Of course it depends on stocking levels and feeding etc

the changes i mentioned were for starting a tank from scratch with a few fish, crabs etc in it and no skimmer

my original tank was under gravel filter plates with a couple of inches of crushed shell in it

like Caryl once cycled it ran for about 3 years with top ups from the hose

[FishBen]

Oh wow that's great to know