TommySharp Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 I've kept standard tropical fish at various stages over the years and recently decided to try my hand at malawi cichlids. After much online reading I decided to go with electric yellows in my 620T 120 litre tank. I went crushed coral and aragonite for the floow and some nice big rocks to make about 6 decent hiding caves. I then let that tank settle for 10 days applying some "medicine" from the fish shop to help cycle the tank quickly. I kept the noodles from my tropical tank and placed them in the brand new Aqua One canister filter to try and help it cycle better. I purchased a pair of 4 inch sized electric yellows from the Hollywood fish farm in Auckland and from day one I could tell something was wrong as the very next morning one of them was constantly floating around the top corner. They haven't been eating at all too. Did all the tests to make sure the water was okay.... Am using the stick based tests to PH is a little hard to judge but it's definitely over 7.5. Nitrate - 0 Nitrite - 0 PH - 7.5-8.0 The fish haven't died except one of the has a very curved spine all of a sudden and swims kinda weird. We thought it might have been stress as to being the only fish in a new tank so got 4 more fish over the weekend. 2 slightly smaller yellows and 2 zebra type things from Hollywood again. The tank seemed to liven up straight away and everyone was actually eating the flakes if I made them sink to the bottom. But this morning the 2 smaller yellows are lying on their sides on the bottom not looking to good. And one of the larger yellows is back up by the heater. Any hints or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as this is very concerning for fish that are supposed to be pretty hardy.... Do I need to get my fish from somewhere else? Regards, Tommy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 they might just need some time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunbird73 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 620T is quite tall and narrow? Maybe an airstone wouldn't go amiss? What is your ammonia level? ammonia is more toxic at higher ph. I would do a reasonable water change just in case. Other thought is (and there are many more experience than I ) is that if they are zebras then I think they are pretty aggressive? Maybe they are beating up the yellows? good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Thanks Matt, I'm used to the little tropicals where you know it's pretty much "bye bye" if they start swimming strange.... Not sure how many fish would be a good number for the 620T tank.... It's not super wide but it is tall however most places say the wider the better so don't want to crowd them too much.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 620T is quite tall and narrow? Maybe an airstone wouldn't go amiss? What is your ammonia level? ammonia is more toxic at higher ph. Other thought is (and there are many more experience than I ) is that if they are zebras then I think they are pretty aggressive? Maybe they are beating up the yellows ? Thanks, I did think of the air stone so put on at the back. My testing kit doesn't have ammonia so not sure what it is, will have to get something to test that on the weekend. Not sure what the other two "random" fish are but will try add a photo. Could these symptoms be a sign of bullying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenzenz Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yes ammonia levels would be good but if you added cycle and 'working' bio media I would have thought that wouldn't be issue. Firstly I would say that the 620T is not suitable for E-yellows- not long term anyway. Maybe grow out some small ones only. These fish need footprint- so a 3ft tank with same litreage would be better as they are are cichlid and are territorial. A four inch male would probably detremine that whole space is his and defend it. If the second fish is another male then he is a target and if female she is being harrassed by male for mating. E yellows are harem brooders and you need a few females for a male to stop one being harrassed to death or at least more space to get out of territory. E yellows do tend to 'play' amongst themselves so it is unlikely introduction of other species will change things and depending on what the "zebra' type fish is - you may have issues there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smidey Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 i would think the fish that isn't well is being harassed by one or the other fish, with the tank being so small it has no where to go although you have plenty of hiding places. they can be nasty, i had a group get along fine for around 2 years then with in 2 weeks the male had killed 3 females. i think the only other thing that hasn't been mentioned is tank temp, what is it & is the heater big enough to keep the tank up to temp at night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_r Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 have you been doing water changes? personally id never add any "medicine" etc to help the cycling i would do it naturally. sounds to me like it could be water quality issues rather than anyone beating anyone up. or maby the e.yellows got a bit of shock when they were released into the tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Thanks Guys, Did a 1/3 water change yesterday and water is sitting at 26.5C... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Firenz and smidey are spot on here the tank is too small those 620T although they hold a bit of water don't actually have a footprint much bigger than a 2ft tank and that is what most cichlids need to have lots of to establish territories and hide if they are getting a hard time... Yellows are more likely to work in this smaller tank but you would need to have 1m and multiple females and it will be very hard on them, I would recommend a reasonably big 3ft minimum for yellows. The zebras (if they are zebras) you have got need to go back before they grow up and take over the tank, most zebras are pretty nasty and shouldn't really be kept in anything smaller than a 4ft tank once they are a reasonable size. The fish that was cowering in the top corner had probably been beaten/chased/harassed to within an inch of its life and had nowhere else to hide so it went as far away from where the fish that was beating it up was. You always have to be worried when a fish that seeks refuge in rocks is hiding in the top corner of the tank. How are the fish looking today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 what temp is African tanks supposed to be at? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Any thing over 24 and under 30 is fine. 26 is probably best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Unfortunately the two smaller ones haven't made it. Put them in a smaller tank on their to try and give them some piece and quiet bit didn't make much difference. So just 4 similar sized fish left, all very skittish and hiding a lot. Anyone got any thoughts on some different fish that might suit this tank more but which would be okay with the PH of about 7.5? Spent a bit of money on the sand and rocks so don't want to get rid of it..... Looking for something with a bit more character than guppies etc.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matto Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 ohh bum my tank is usually 30-32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_r Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 in the past my fish have been skittish due to poor condition water, i remember the first killifish i attempted to breed they were swimming around like madmen and very scared and stressed, ended up dying and found it was due to the tank not being cleaned out with salt before use as it had been sitting in a garage for years. I took tank apart, washed everything in salt and hot water, refilled and got to temp and had some guppys in the tank to test it out. may not be the problem in your case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Well all the water tests are fine so far. Am just waiting on an ammonia test kit which will hopefully rule that out. The tank was a tropical setup and I cleaned the whole thing out and wiped down with white vinegar and then rinsed throughly a few times before setting it up again. All the water is out of the kitchen betnch top filtered tap so hopefully it's better than straight out the tap. My tropical fish definitely didn't do very well either since we moved out west from Onehunga to Avondale. I'm constantly wondering if there's something else wrong with the water out this way, have even considered trying to catch some rain water.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 the water conditions they came from are probably different to what they have been put in. I found this to be the case with my old africans. I mean, they didn't even like large (40%) water changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Fish shop guy was adamant that their cichlids are in Ph 8.0..... I wonder if all their tanks just run the same water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_r Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 in my case the tank had been in a garage with alot of spraypainting etc done over the years and poisoned the fish, ammonia tests etc dont pick this up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 pH is not the only difference it can be. It could be the TDS - total dissolved solids; amount of salt (put salt in with malawis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 pH is not the only difference it can be. It could be the TDS - total dissolved solids; amount of salt (put salt in with malawis). Hmmmm wonder if I should put some salt in? Any ideas on what is a good level to put in? Salt might knock if the little pleco who lives in there too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 I have kept africans in all manner of water conditions and sold and shipped them around the country and not had issues like what you have I would say it is just aggression, the fish will probably get over being skittish in time or add some swordtails or barbs or something to give them confidence. 26ish is good for africans, usual story though they will adapt to anything at lower temps they will eat less grow slower and live longer, and higher temps they will eat more grow faster and have shorter lives. You could try a colony of brichardi or pair of jullies or something similar in that sized tank, maybe even some shellies but it is not really suitable for the mbuna. I wouldn't bother with salt it is not going to magically cheer the fish up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenzenz Posted August 10, 2010 Report Share Posted August 10, 2010 Anyone got any thoughts on some different fish that might suit this tank more but which would be okay with the PH of about 7.5? Spent a bit of money on the sand and rocks so don't want to get rid of it..... Looking for something with a bit more character than guppies etc.... Sorry to hear about the losses The 620 T is a cool tank but not ideal for most cichlids apart from dwarves. I'd be looking at fish that fill up the 'column' of water this tank provides. If it were me I'd keep substrate and use enough rocks to make a pyramid a more vertical stack. Get some anything from cory's, B'N's. loaches and/or a pair of blue rams or similar for bottom. Plant something like Cabomba or Val or anything easily grown that will grow vertically around the rocks. pick a 'mid level' swimmer like Harlequin Rasboras and have a small school of them. Have something like a Pantadon butterfly or some Hatchets that naturally on the top. Picking fish that use different levels in the water as opposed the territory of the space the bottom provides is IMO the best from the tank. I'd even suggest a pair of Angels if you weren't going other cichlids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommySharp Posted August 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 Do we think that the Brichardi and Jullies would fight it out or live peacefully? Am doing a bit of reading online to try and find out too... Okay didn't take me too long to figure out that's probably not a good idea. Am kind of liking the idea of getting a group of Julidochromis ornatus (The Golden Julie) and see if I can end up with a breeding pair. Anyone know a good place to get some smallish fry? Anyone keen to adopt my 4 remaining cichlids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted August 11, 2010 Report Share Posted August 11, 2010 I would say you could only do a colony of brichardi/pulchers(daffodil) or jullies as they occupy the same space and you don't have much of it. The brichardi are pretty cool as these guys breed in groups and all the siblings work together to raise subsequent batches of fry. Or you could do a pair of jullies in there, the jullies are a bit like the brichardi in that older fry wont eat new ones but the parents can start getting a little snotty at the fry when they get to around 1" one (which is convenient as this is when they are ready for sale) so it is best to remove them then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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