Major pond problem

[Caryl]

Not sure what is going on but I have fished out 8 bodies so far and many others looking lethargic. Hard to tell though as it is winter and usually I don't see the fish over winter at all as they stay on the bottom under the deck until the weather warms. This winter has been so wet and mild they do not seem to have hibernated as usual and I wonder if the 'warmer' temperatures have caused the problem. Water temp is still 9C! Usually it is closer to 2C and freezes over for a few weeks. This year it has only frozen over 2 days :-?

They appear to have some sort of growth on their tails. Not quite what I expect fin rot to look like. No rotting ends, not red streaks. Some also have sores on their body. One has a major growth on its nose. It looks hard but when I tried to pick it off (thinking it might just be a secondary fungal growth over a wound) it would not come off and felt jelly-like.

The sores on the side may look a little fluffy but, on close inspection, are not. They too, and the growths on the tails, feel jelly-like. Grant has just gone off to purchase suitable hose to attach the UV filter to the pump and see if that helps.

Any other suggestions as to what it might be?

[ryanjury]

Sorry to hear about this Caryl

I am hoping it is not for your sake, but have you considered columnaris?

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/c ... isease.php

[Caryl]

I haven't considered anything in particular but looking at images of columnaris it doesn't seem to match my fish :-?

Whatever it is, I hope the UV fixes it! After the problems with the tropical tank this is the last thing I need

[jn]

This compares columnaris and saprolegnia which often look similar:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Columnaris.html

This has a few descriptions with treatment options and might be a good starting point.

http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/Q&A/skin_disorders.html

I know we don't have koi here but I'm betting there's a lot of commonality in the problems with goldfish and koi ponds and since people tend to have a lot invested in their koi, there are lots of resources available so try checking those out. I read somewhere just last week that sometimes when there are greenish bits on growths it's actually algae that's taken advantage of the situation and it growing on top of the problem patches! (I can't find the reference though sorry!)

This is a parasite problem, says it often starts as lesions and is sometimes accompanied by white slime.

http://www.koivet.com/a_costia.html

And here.. see the topic 'spring is in the air'

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/PondSubWebIn ... isfaqs.htm

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/diseasehome.htm

and lastly

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/treatments/salt.htm

Maybe salt would be the easiest fist attempt cause its cheap and works on a variety of ailments, maybe do a medicated dip for the worst affected fish (maybe something like a 'quick cure' type mix that could target a few different things.)

Found one reference that said lots of rain could cause a pH crash, which would stress them and make them more open to the various nasties that normally don't cause any harm.

Keep us posted. Sure hope you can fix them and that it doesn't spread much more!!

[Caryl]

Thanks for that jn. I still have no idea what it is and two of the above fish were dead this morning. Well one was, the other was so far gone it got whacked. I have looked through a number of disease sites.

Not sure how to salt a pond in the right dose. It is approx 8.3m x 3.2m and varies in depth but probably averages out about 40cm so holds around 10,624 litres of water (give or take a bit). Besides, every time I have tried to treat a goldfish with salt it has promptly died :roll:

It might mean emptying the pond, putting the fish in a smaller pond to treat, then re-filling the big one.

Didn't think to check the pH but it has not crashed. It is about 7.2 - 7.4. This is a lot lower than it was (as some exposed concrete meant it was a very dark blue originally on the colour chart) but it would have dropped slowly enough not to bother the fish I am sure.

[jn]

Sorry to hear that Caryl, I came very close to salting my whole pond once but realised i had some water condition problems so I fixed that and things settled.. but I was only seeing 'restlessness'.. not anything scary like you've got!

I have successfully salted goldfish a few times to the full recommended dosage of 3g/L (for longer term baths), but I built it up over 1.5-2 days. Basically adding 1g/L at a time, slowly (like over 30 mins pouring in just some of the dissolved solution and letting it dissipate in the water). Them giving them some time to adjust to that 6-8 hours and then adding the 2nd g/L dose etc.

Say like morning, evening and then the next morning.

The trouble with taking them out to treat them is they're still producing so much waste, you end up fighting to keep the water safe while still getting them the benefits of the salt. I'd try salting a few in one of your kiddie pools and see how that goes maybe? Perhaps grab a plant or 2 if you can reach some easily enough as a source of some good bacteria and to help use up any waste. (Crikey that's a large pond....ok you'd be looking at 30+kg!!!)

You could swab the worst of the spots with malachite green...? Or have a fish bin/bucket with some in there at the recommended dose for short term dips and dip them for a few mins as you move them into a salt treatment pond? The recommendation is not to combine salt and other meds together, but you can use them before or after the salt.

Its sounding like you haven't got too much to lose

[Caryl]

I am loathe to use any sort of medication unless I know what it is that is wrong :-?

The fish seem to hang at the surface, like they were sunbathing. Do not appear distressed and, apart from those shown, do not have any marks or sores on them. They are not actually gasping at the surface or doing anything else abnormal.

I might set up the paddling pool and attach a spare Fluval or Jebo and the UV light. I can put it near the verandah so keep the filters dry under there. I am concerned that the filter inlet and outlet are close together in the pond so not sure how long it would take for all the water to be fed through the UV. The fish tend to hang out at the end opposite to the filter so I do not think will get the full benefit, quickly, in the main pond.

Not sure how to drain 10,624L of water considering how water logged the ground is already! Luckily, we are in what used to be the old river course so it will actually drain away. A hose through to the reserve next door is probably the best option.

[alanmin4304]

I would go with columnaris

[Caryl]

A vet site says (in part);

When fish are infected with this pathogen, the following signs can be observed:

Skin. There will be necrotic lesions on the skin, which often are white/gray colored with an edging of red. These will quickly transform (in a day or two) into ulcers with have an orange/yellow color, caused by the bacteria decaying the underlying tissue.

They certainly have ulcer-like lesions on one or two (I photographed) but not the rest

Gills. Similar effects very typically occur on the gills, but may for the average hobbyist be somewhat harder to observe at least in the early stages. The progression of these ulcers, causes the fish to have great trouble with its respiration, and thus can quickly lead to fatalities. If the gills are examined, excessive amounts of mucous, are to be expected.

I am only an average hobbyist so perhaps that is the problem but I can see nothing wrong with the gills, even using a magnifying glass. The fish are not having trouble breathing that I can see, nor are they breathing rapidly, and there doesn't appear to be excessive mucous.

Behavior. The fish will become very listless and lethargic, often hanging at the surface, trying to breath there, although on occasion, the fish will rest on the bottom of the tank. Reluctance to feed is very typical and the fish will become anorexic. Respiration is often rapid, as the fish fights to overcome the damage done by the infection to its gills.

The fish are definitely lethargic and hanging at the surface but they are under it, not gasping or breathing at the surface. It is winter so they are lethargic anyway. They are not being fed as it is too cold. Respiration is not rapid

Body. In some cases, the lips of the fish, will become swollen and macerated, and a milky slime like film can be observed with the naked eye on parts of the body.

Apart from the one fish with the infection on its mouth, all the others look fine. No milky slime anywhere

Fins. Large milky patches can be seen quite easily on the fins of the fish, and this is usually an indication that the disease has progressed to a degree that cure will become much more difficult. One typical sign is the appearance of a "saddle" shaped lesion usually around the area of the dorsal fin, and this occurs so often, that the name "saddle back disease" is often used in aquaculture to describe this infection.

No large, milky patches anywhere or saddleback lesions

Water. Temperature is often elevated beyond what is normal, or the fish have been exposed to a sudden rise in temperature. Furthermore, the quality of the water, is a vital component, in getting this disease under control. Excessive detritus and less than ideal filtration, will ensure the spread of the infection. Hard water seems to make the spread of the bacteria easier than soft.

It is winter, the water temperature is only 9C so not elevated! Only slightly alkaline too.

[jn]

Any more news Caryl? Have any new fish been affected?

Hope things are settling.

[Caryl]

No new fish seem to be affected at this stage. One of the ones I photographed is on its last legs (or fins) and I fished out 2 more bodies but they were well decomposing so, apart from that one I know is heading for that big pond in the sky, the others appear to be back to normal and back at the bottom where they belong. No new deaths for 2 days and no fish at the surface. We have also had 2 days of -2C so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. :-?

[AquaLife]

I was just going thru all threads and taught I'd share what I know which is not much actually and I may be wrong, lol. Salt bath as I know is to fill a containter big enough to place a fish in. Add a handfull or two of salt, place the affected fish in, it will go belli up withun sec, let it stay beli up for a 15-20 sec, then remove it back to pond or recovery tank. If it didn't go belli up, then there is not enough salt. Do this daily till the fishes recover.