breakaway Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 if your gonna pay for it mate! Shae 250 Its not going to be that expensive - get a drill, drill holes, get a filter/pump, get a heater. A 150w should do the trick. But too late now probably. Why is it too late? Cant he get a drill and just drill holes? Or is there a special procedure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 He's already got it ordered, maybe if it hasn't been built yet he can get it drilled. I get the impression most places really don't like to drill holes on completed tanks. I don't see any reason to drill any holes though, just have the dividers shorter a tiny bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 There is a problem here guys. The fish he wants these tanks for, are killies. They are reknown escapologists, so this would have to be covered. I was against this design from the start, and told Shae so. I prefer a single stand alone tank. It is so much easier to locate smaller tanks. Think of it. Remove the lid to work with one species, out jumps one from another unwatched tank. If it doesn't try drying itself,it could go into a tank and inter-mate with a close species. Cleaning completely is so much easier to do with a single tank than an apartment block. The lid problem could be over come tho, with separate lids for each tank. To do this, a small piece of glass is glued near to the back wall, but on the side walls. This has to be done very carefully, and I use a template for locating them. Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 This system that I built works fine for multiple tanks with one heat source. http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/grumpy ... 0Tanks.htm No drilling needed, but the ends of the tanks would need converting as per the pics. Alan... Remember I was saying I had lots of 24X12X15 (600x300x375) high tanks in 3mm glass...? Well these are a few of them Never gave a moments prob. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 This completly stuffs up my plans. I dont want seperate tanks Alan, I just want one big one, a whole tone of smaller ones are going to cost more, I might in future change my mind and resort to smaller tank. however the tank has already been ordered. Lets stay of the subject of what type of tank i have! all i need to know is what is the best and most cost effective way to heat it. I do not really want to be buying a whole tone of heaters, that is going to cost me alot of money, and then i will also have the problem of tonnes of cords. cascading is out of the question i could not do it with this tank. and heating the garage would be useless because it is not insulated. supposely, contrary to what i read, heating pads are not effective and cost more to run. I am out of options and know am in a very tight spot. Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I guess there's a good reason but why not use deviders instead glass partitions? Would make the tank cheaper, one heater, one filter, deviders can be moved/removed etcetc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 becuase the dividers are going to be giving it strength as it is only going to be made of 6mm glass. Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Cant you just use a brace or two? Sounds a little bit like your spending lots of money to save a little bit of money, esp when you consider that the tank is usually one of the cheapest parts of the setup cost. For example look at your filters 5 x $10(?) air filter + BIG/reliable/quite air pump $50 (?) = $100 = very good second hand canister filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Shae, don't worry about a tone of heaters. Just put your main heater (one) in the central section, and the glass, being a useless insulation of heat, will let the others heat up to a varying degree. Work with Stu and he'll tell you what are a cooler killie. Some CAN live in cold water. Do some research mate. But definately go for separate lids, by doing that, it makes the tanks "jump-proof". Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 LB said: I do not really want to be buying a whole tone of heaters, that is going to cost me alot of money, and then i will also have the problem of tonnes of cords. cascading is out of the question i could not do it with this tank. and heating the garage would be useless because it is not insulated. supposely, contrary to what i read, heating pads are not effective and cost more to run. Welcome to the world of fishkeeping Seems to me that you have all these dreams, but yet you are not prepared to accept keeping fish requires space,... time,.. and a great deal of effort .. if you want to do it right I have got mainly big tanks and have decided to down size but in mass, my intentions are to have many, many small tanks....... But it seems that you have bought a tank with divisions. Is a heating pad cheaper in electicity than 5 small heaters? becuase i intend on about 4 of this style tank. Why would you "need" four heaters in a tank this size...? Lets stay of the subject of what type of tank i have! all i need to know is what is the best and most cost effective way to heat it. Seeing the tank is already made... Divisions clear of the tank base... undergravel filter (full base cover).. one heater only needed. becuase the dividers are going to be giving it strength as it is only going to be made of 6mm glass. In 6mm glass there is no need for additional "internal" struts or supports... just the standard top bracing. Normal dividers would have done the job at far less expense. Seems everyone has attempted to answer all your questions. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I don't see why a heatpad should be more expensive to run as heat rises. I have emailed you Shae. Can't say I have ever noticed an extra cost on my power bill for the tanks but I only have 2 4ft tanks running with 4 double flouros in a well insulated house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Thanks Caryl I have just talked to three different people, one of them being Stuart Lord, and all of them have said the same thing. the smartest, most cost effective way to go would be heating pads, as heat rises etc etc ( cant be bothered going into further detail as i have got myself worked up and stressed after being told, "bad" information about heating pads) Stuart also, to my surprise said "do you know Caryl Simpson, she would be the person to talk to and alot more knowlagble than me on the subject"!! One thing he did stress though was get a good thermometer that has a dial to control the temperature. Looks like you certainly are popular Caryl Every article i have read on heating pads suggests the above, that heating pads use slightly less power than aquarium water heaters, and even though are harder to find and cost more would be cheaper in the long run. that was why i was so surprised as were the people i have talked to, when they were told some of the commments in regards to heating pads effecciacny. MAN was i stressing!! Cheers Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Everything I have read puts heating pads above internal heaters for running costs (there is a calculator on RC). Think about it, heat rises, sure, but heat from the pad radiates out, thus heating under the heater as well as above it, this heat created on the stand is wasted energy, and its heater warmer than the tank itself. An internal heater bleeds all of its energy straight into the water, no energy from the heat sorurce is wasted. Ultimatly the difference is probably negligable, the saving from interal heaters vs. pads will be little. The amount of energy required is static, its the efficiency of the heater itself that is the variable. I am having trouble keeping my tank cool. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Heat only rises if it's heating a fluid that then moves. If you're heating water/air, yeah, the warmer water is slightly less dense and essentially floats upwards. If you're heating glass, and wood, it's going to simply be conducted from the heating pad in all directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Now if you were using small tanks, I know a way that they can be heated with just a light bulb. Can't get much cheaper than that. Now can ya?? But wait, nope, you don't want small tanks, so it doesn't matter. :roll: Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Very suttle Alan Plz pm me your idea? Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 No You don't want small tanks As I so subtly put it Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 I might in future change my mind and resort to smaller tanks Now if you were using small tanks, I know a way that they can be heated with just a light bulb. Can't get much cheaper than that. Was there a reason you didn't tell me this Alan? I would have changed my mind about the big tank in a heart beat! You could have saved me alot of stress! how would the tanks stay warm at night when the lights are off? Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Heat only rises if it's heating a fluid that then moves. If you're heating water/air, yeah, the warmer water is slightly less dense and essentially floats upwards. If you're heating glass, and wood, it's going to simply be conducted from the heating pad in all directions. A heatpad won't conduct heat way in all directions if it's desinged correctly. There should be a very thin face between the heating element and the glass. Glass has a very good conductivity to heat at about 1.05. Wood is relatively poor at 0.13 and Polystyrene 0.03 and water 0.54 Based off this, with a thin soft wood base with poly under it, over 97% of the heatpad energy will go into the water. Natural water convection will do the rest. The temperature in the tank is a lot more even with a heatpad as the radiating surface is the whole bottom instead of a small glass tube in one corner. If the tank is also insulated with poly on the sides and top cover there will be a massive saving in power - maybe as much as 75%. Leave only the front open. If you cover the front while you're not at home, you'll save even more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Cause ya light bulb acts on a thermostatic control It works. Ask ej Alan 104 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Thanks Warren! Much apprecitaed, the heating pad will go ahead then, Cheers 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interfecus Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Of course there's one way to get more heat into your tanks than energy you expend and that's to take that heat from elsewhere. If you're willing to spend quite a bit at first, you can get a heat pump system. Even in winter they manage to be more efficient than regular heating. The other step to reduce heating bills is to reduce heat loss by adding better insulation. If you have all your tanks on polystyrene bases, have them well covered to reduce evaporation, and stick polystyrene sheets to the back and sides then you'll cut your heat loss quite a bit quite cheaply. This is not, however, suitable if you have a space heater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted December 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 alright heres the situation, I got hold of my electrician showed him the file that Caryl sent me. He is able to get me the heating mat itself for $148+Gst and a thermostat for around $150, know i can afford the heating mat, but the thermostat is a bit expensive for my taste, I was wondering if any1 knew where to get a cheaper one, or if som1 has one that they would sell me? Cheers Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 We used to buy them from the pet shop for $10 but I would expect they are more like $30 - $40 if you can find one. They used to be used when heaters and thermostats were 2 separate bits of equipment but went out of style once heaterstats came on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spooky Posted December 19, 2004 Report Share Posted December 19, 2004 It is quite possible the thermostat on offer is overkill. We used to have these really nice ones where I worked in the states. They let you set all sorts of parameters, had a digital display, could regulate the current rather than just being on/off and so on. They cost about $100 US and are completely over the top for a fish tank. They weren't water-proof either, which is why I know how much they cost. On the other hand, if they were wired correctly, the temperature would be constant to well within 0.1C. You can almost certainly find something cheaper that is more suited to your needs Shae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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