elusive_fish Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I've been seeking some expert help on some more technical aspects of a large tank design... but before I do anything I need a sanity check. The plan is to have a tank 2300long x 700wide x 600 tall coming out from the wall like a peninsula, with bar seating on three sides. In the middle is a simulated rock wall that the fish can swim in and out of through holes, from one side of the tank to the other. This also stops you from staring at the person opposite. I would stock it with malawi cichlids - a bunch of electric yellows and dems, with some male peacocks and haps. All up, the project won't give me any change out of $3000. As a cafe in its first year of business on the door of gloomy winter, that is a major investment. For me, it is a dream tank, but I need to make sure it is a sound business decision and that it does have a Return On Investment. The front of my cafe is wide and floor-to-ceiling glass, so the idea is to put an aquarium in so impressive that when viewed from the roadside would draw people to come in and look. Then sit down and drink a coffee and watch. Then it would get known as the 'cafe with the giant aquarium'- something to differentiate it from the other 5 within the area. Kids seem to have a lot of say what happens in the family and I'd imagine kids would just love to watch the cichlids crazy and colourful antics (as would all ages) I know I'm asking an incredibly biased audience in here, but I still want to know what people think. Do you think it would create any noticeable increase in revenue? Would you/your friends/etc make a point of going to a place that had such a display? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdspider Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I would 'cos I live 10 minutes away. I'd definitely bypass all the Coffee cultures etc at The Palms. But if I lived further away? Probably not :oops: But for me, in these harsh economic times, cafes are an occasional treat & instant coffee at home is the norm. So I'm probably not the target audience anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogod Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 As a coffee addict I say the coffee is way more important than a fish tank, doesnt matter what is in a cafe, coffee and food has to be what attracts people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Hard to know really, I know I would go there if it had a big tank but that is just because I am into fish It would certainly differentiate your shop from the other shops, and may even be good for identification of your shop, ie someone says oh I had a good feed at the cafe at "blah blah" the other day I can't remember its name but it had a huge fish tank.. Either way it is cool and a good chance to own your dream tank and write it off against the business lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I would strongly recommend you get GST registered, and then purchase what ever AFTER the business is established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdspider Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I would strongly recommend you get GST registered, and then purchase what ever AFTER the business is established. The cafe is already there & he's been running it 6months + so that's all sorted. (I keep having to correct you today P44, geeez. 8) ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted April 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 As a coffee addict I say the coffee is way more important than a fish tank, doesnt matter what is in a cafe, coffee and food has to be what attracts people. Good coffee and food keeps people coming back. It also does attract new people, but that word-of-mouth process is slow. What I am trying to do is attract more people into the cafe so that I can impress them with the coffee, food and service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikBok Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Good coffee is my first decison on where to go for cafe break...and tasty food to eat with it. I don't mind paying extra if the quality is there. Would an aquarium attract me? .. sure, maybe the first time but to keep me going .. the coffee and food HAS to be good. Would it be just a single tank with 8 seats around it as pictured... I don't know that I would want to sit with a group of strangers in that format to drink Coffee.. that would be a put off. But if there were a few smaller tanks scattered around, that would certainly be a drawcard.. but more cost and work for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted April 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Good coffee is my first decison on where to go for cafe break...and tasty food to eat with it. I don't mind paying extra if the quality is there. Would an aquarium attract me? .. sure, maybe the first time but to keep me going .. the coffee and food HAS to be good. Would it be just a single tank with 8 seats around it as pictured... I don't know that I would want to sit with a group of strangers in that format to drink Coffee.. that would be a put off. But if there were a few smaller tanks scattered around, that would certainly be a drawcard.. but more cost and work for you! Bar seating is common in cafes. Its a way that single people can sit near each other without feeling awkward (you're facing the same way). Instead of looking out into the the road, they are looking at the tank instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I think it is a good idea, $3k won't buy much advertising, and even if the business goes belly up [worst case scenario, hopefully not!] you can keep your dream tank. But as bulldogod said, if your coffee isn't up to scratch people won't come back regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskas Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 we have an aquarium in the library - it only has 2 goldfish and a bristlenose in it, nothing spectacular - but the kids love it! We have a sign on the front saying "Can you find Mr B?" then has a pic of wat he looks like. Kids spend ages looking around the tank for him, even making it a mini competition, the adults often join in too. Perhaps you could get one hiding fish for the kids to locate, name it after your cafe so they remember the cafe's name when talking to friends/family etc. So yes the kids do love it (from babies to 12 year olds) and some even come in just to see the fish. The adults love them too cos they tell the kids to go look at the fish while they get their books issued and sort out overdues etc etc. The only problem we have is some kids knock on the glass, or hang on the side trying to pull themselves up to look from the top! But a little bit of education and it usually wont happen again. We also allow the kids to feed the goldfish if they havnt already been fed - or even if they have (hence why the fish are fat lol). IMO a decent tank and great food and coffee/tea/hot chocolate will keep everyone happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted April 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Just to clarify something: the tank is not a substitute for good coffee! I trained with NZ #1 and World #7 barrista... im pretty damn fussy when it comes to coffee! Plus, there are plenty of places that make diabolical coffee and still exist. Just look at Robert Harris and Muffin Break (not to say they couldnt make good coffee, just they love to employ school kids who dont drink coffee. No wait, im not sure anyone could make robert harris coffee taste good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BikBok Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Bar seating is common in cafes. Its a way that single people can sit near each other without feeling awkward (you're facing the same way). Instead of looking out into the the road, they are looking at the tank instead. hmmm i guess I'm not used to drinking alone. It's usually me and hubby .. or the family if we're out and about. I'm used to the table and chairs setup.. or I just haven't noticed the bar style in Auckland lol . Makes sense for singles though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 I myself have no clue on what effect it will have financially, but I've have always enjoyed sitting in restaurants or cafes with fish tanks -even gold fish. Even before I got into fish. I was down in Queenstown last week, and the is a cafe/bar with a fishtank, about 5 foot, heavily planted. It looked great, The place itself was nice, but it really caught a lot of attention when walking past it. I'd imagine a large cichlid tank would do the same. If you do it, I will convince my family to come visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoon Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 Just to clarify something: the tank is not a substitute for good coffee! I trained with NZ #1 and World #7 barrista... im pretty damn fussy when it comes to coffee! Plus, there are plenty of places that make diabolical coffee and still exist. Just look at Robert Harris and Muffin Break (not to say they couldnt make good coffee, just they love to employ school kids who dont drink coffee. No wait, im not sure anyone could make robert harris coffee taste good) i dont think you will have any trouble with the coffee it was the best coffee i can remember having in a long time . while i wouldnt normally drive all the way over new brighton for a coffee if i was an average joe out that way on the weekend i think i would be drawn to a cafe with a large fishtank over other cafes. im an adult now and when i was a kid it was the same . i think it could really "reel" in the the customers over summer as new brighton becomes a busy place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 haha. im being extra diplomatic. ___ save your gst reciepts. go on the ird website and look at the depreciation values for assets and calculate your tax shield. sum those together and discount them at what it costs you to take a loan at, and that is what your assets lose in value at the end of the year - today, and represents the amount you will save in taxes. remember to do this for any assets including property, plant and equipment. as far as ROI goes, it will be hard to attribute a set of cash flows that represent people coming to the cafe because of the added attraction of the fish tank, but it would be difficult to say that people would be indifferent to the cafe with a nice well set up tank, and great coffee (I hear the coffee is great). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elusive_fish Posted April 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 haha. im being extra diplomatic. as far as ROI goes, it will be hard to attribute a set of cash flows that represent people coming to the cafe because of the added attraction of the fish tank, but it would be difficult to say that people would be indifferent to the cafe with a nice well set up tank, and great coffee (I hear the coffee is great). You're right. Any added revenue it creates could never be attributed to it directly. But maybe if we look it another way there are some ways to consider the financial sense of this project. If I expect this project to have a 1 year pay-back period, $3000 would require an extra $58 of revenue per week. As far as cost of running goes - 2 x 300W heaters, 150W lighting, 50W pump = 800kw @ 24c per kw/hr = $32/week Throw in $10/week for food and extra costs, it would cost me about $100/week to run. The question is: would it likely attract more than $100 extra revenue per week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 you best train your staff to upsell.. freshly baked bread makes people want it... you'll be surprised at the markup on simple bakery items like croissants, eclairs etc. you will probably need to add on to increase that GP. but an extra $100 a week is about $20 a day after taxes and extras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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