lduncan Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Looks to be a doco on Vanuatu and the marine aquarium trade collectors, exploitation, overfishing and corruption. http://tvnz.co.nz/view/tvone_story_skin ... ormat=html 10:15pm Friday. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 sounds like a good thing to watch, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Repeats Saturday morning as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Thanks for letting us know about it Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 interesting in fiji some collecters have had to resort to court orders to stop others collecting from there patch etc...... its a pretty full on biz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 watched most of it. made me feel a little guilty about feeping marine fish i kind of have mixed feelings, the fact that fish #'s have dropped by 50% in some areas is just insane. on the other hand i dont feel guilty for the depletion of the fish but rather for the fact that there arent people smart enough involved to realise that there needs to be some form of regulation to maintain both eco system and environment also encouraged me to breed my little clown couple, and buy frags from people as to not have such a large impact on the reefs awww their so cute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 From what I understood, there are quotas in place, but no money for the authorities to enforce them, so they rely on collectors to give them accurate numbers. I think the actual catch rate was almost three times the quota! Who knows, maybe fish will come under CITIES in order to regulate numbers more strictly. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 another thing that astonished me was the amount of $ that the locals got from the deal 70 cents that seems a little rediculous, i'd be willing to pay a little more to ensure they got a fair cut and that the reefs were'nt getting raped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Actually what was shown on that program WAS the ethical company. Not near as bad as some countries where they use cyanide, and even dynamite. Another incentive for aquaculture, yes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 definatly i cant believe people can be so heartless as to poison fish and then sell them top die slowly, just to fill there pockets go acquaculture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Aquacultured corals is no problem. If you want aquacultured fish, be prepared to pay for them. http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/Ca ... &siteid=20 Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 26, 2004 Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 those arent aquacultered are they/?? i thought that the divers den fish on live aquaria where hand caught in the wild??? the tank bred fish (what i though would be considered aquacultured) are the same price if not cheaper on live aquaria (spingeri psuedochromis 48$ wild caught 39$ tank bred) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Yes. Tank bred. Some Dwarf angels are able to be bred in captivity, as are yellow tangs. The usual damsel type fish are easy to breed but are still more expensive, most I have seen are at least double the price, if not more. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 duh i didnt notice the little tankbred thing damn those are expensive i guess it depends on the type of fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 I saw the doco with a few friends who do not keep fish They saw two things in the program A) THe locals are getting ripped as they pay peanuts or use filipino divers. B) Locals do not police quotas thus the country is short changing itself, bad reefs = no tourists. C) the collection company looks real shonky and they are convinced that bribery payments are changing hands higher at gov level..... Interestingly, They did not see it as a fish keepers issue, more a local country issue to protect their own resource. I however felt at the end of the day though, we as hobbist cause the problem, even unintenially. Millions of hobbists each with a tank of 10 fisk/20 corals = a lot of corals! We always want new, cheap etc The argument that all our friends see our tanks and thus become more aware of reef's promoting conservation is a little of a cop out. more like bs IMHO. I think we need more regulation covering fish collection, (CITES usefull for corals) if we are not to be banned totally in 15 years time....... While we may be able to culture corals, I doubt that the wide variety of fish we like to keep will be available via this option.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 In the end market forces tend to prevail. Once wild stuff is few enough to be expensive to catch, the price of captive raised will become more competitive. Normally in any business the bottom line tends to be money, rather than laws, ethics, or whatever. Just hope not to much damage to wild reefs is done before that happens. Probably some species of fish will never be captive raised. But corals are another story, there is almost nothing in my tank that is not aquacultured by at least one generation removed from the wild stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Also said, supported by a marine biologist, was that there really was no solid scientific research into the short/long term impact to the reefs of the collection activity. When you imagine how big the commercial fishing industry is in Vanuatu world (read tuna etc) and the fact that they had no operational gov fisheries boats what so ever! it is not hard to imagine how ornamental fish/coral business will probably continue to go unmonitored until it starts to impact the diving/tourism business, and I also imagine the operaters are smart enough to probably not collect right on the main diving sites..... It would be interesting to dive some of the locations where they have/have not been collecting to see the results 1st hand........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 New Zealand has been the world leader in sustainable management of fisheries and its quotas, some species of fish infact have shown overall increase in numbers. it will not be long untill the aquatics industry embraces similar techniques. If the company in Q doesnt start to support thelocals and the sustainable management of catches they will only be shooting themselves and the trade in tghe foot. All i can say is i wish the locals all the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 As a diver i notice the rich abundance of life in the NZ marine reserves.... I do not agree with how well we have actually done in preserving original numbers, or indeed increasing them! But yes we are trying...... to find a balance between commercial reality and conservation.... .... and we have some very cool fisheries boats and orions to help police the zone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmatix Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Marine sci papper at auckland uni says other wise, please note that i am only talking about certain species of fish that have responded in a positive manner to catch size/limit not all. Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pegasus Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 RnB said: I do not agree with how well we have actually done in preserving original numbers, or indeed increasing them! I disagree RnB, as anyone that has dived many of the marine reserves around NZ will tell you. Take a local example... Leigh... Goat Island... Nr Warkworth This area had been raped by not only local fishermen, but commercial as well, and in the late '70's and 80's you were hard pressed to find any decent fish in the area... but now .. after the great work put in by the Leigh Lab and the efforts of all concerned, you can "actually" just PADDLE into the water now and be surrounded by Snapper.. Cod Fish, Leather Jackets.. and dozens of other species, plus a 50mtr swim to the small reef will let you see some of the best crays around... something that was not possible before conservation. The Poor Knights are the same.. and are now known as one of the top diving sites throughout the world. Bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 thats my point, all of New Zealand was once like these marine reserves... I dive Leigh and Poor knights several times each year, I also dive gulf locations. Marine reserves do work, its just they are a very small part of the overall picture. But wehen you consider it ALL used to have this density of life...... There are so many dive sites around NZ that are much less dense in fishlife now, I remember catching snapper in the harbour at Tauranga as a kid....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Is Goat Island actually a reserve? I thought it was a sacntry not reserve? A sacntry is just a place deviod of fishing but a reserve has concervation measures taken. The reason I ask is that I have been to goat island. Yes it has lots of fish, but there is nothing natural about it. Zillions of fish begging to be hand fed food from anything human. First of I would like to say that I am a supporter of reserves/sacntries. I don't eat seafood and I love to dive If you look at Kapati Island, 1/3 is a reserve. As a diver I have dived both the reserve and non-reserve parts. I can tell you its no different in the reserve than outside of it. As it turns out we know what parts are reserve and what arn't, shame no-one has educated the fish/crays etc. Comercial fishing is bad. Sustainable fishing is just 'marketing lipstick' to make people feel better about there purchases. I worked at Sea Lord Fisheries for almost 5 years, there is nothing sustainable about taking 10s of thousands of tonns (tons) of fish product a year. Yes there are quoters, but like all things legal there are as many loop holes and work arounds as there are protections. e.g. There are some islands in the pacific (atols) that are only above water for a few days every month a few months of the year. They are 'owned' by NZ. During the time they are about water they are hammered, as the rules for fishing inside and outside of the 12 mile limit change. So as soon as the technology shows they are above water, hundreds of fishing boats lay it wait, hammer it. e.g. (changed by law recently). Factory boats who can process there own catchs on certain foods (Hoki for example) weigh it in finished product, not in raw product. You get a lot more fish in a tonne (ton) when you arn't weighting skin, tails, heads and guts. e.g. Scampi, watch the news. And don't get me started on the whole 'Maori' tribal fishing debarcle. The planet is slowly being raped, don't expect the reefs to be treated any differently than anything else. Piethedistroyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 im not a fan of sea food either when i went to goat island it freaked me out to tell the truth, a snapper tried to bite a ring i had on a chain around my neck, and i took one of my gloves off and they saw white flashing at them and charged, scary fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 I am a huge fan of anything commercial, why? Simply because as you are saying we are greedy but the one thing that everyone has the ability to create is money. Consider the big picture, and supply and demand. As it is we are poluting the ocean and will all eventually wipe out the reefs get them in your tank i say at least they can be propogated from there. as suply is reduced or demand is increases shift in suply curve etc price goes up, this is when there is real commercial fesabilaty. government arn't concervationists they are economists there is a big difference, sell the bloodey sea bed, commercial marine biologists can then take care of these and create a balanced eco system (you might argue that we have that now but that is far from the truth there is nothing natural about it. Zillions of fish begging to be hand fed food from anything human we preserve som species wipe out others that leaves some starving to death and some multiplying so rapidly that they decide to eat somthing other than their natural diet that is how things are getting now and will only get worse)charge people to dive (you might say "but i should be able to dive for free" it is bloodey real estate and we are living in a time of survival of the fittest i say if somone is smart enough to purchase this realestate, earn a great return off it and charge me a fortune for it good on him, obviously he was smater than me to have done it. this is nothing new we encounter it every day eg. how often do you complain about the price of petrol going up again it is an inelastic commodity that has a high demand what do you thik is going to happen?). Admittingly at the end of the day yes we all loose out but we gain in other ways that will yet to be made apparent to us. I know what I said is kinda hartless and i would like to point out (although i do enjoy sea food)that i do agree with conservation i just think it is wrong the way it is set up. Plus I enjoy trying to point out things from the other side of the argument Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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