Can't get rid of Gill Flukes

[Floater]

My blue rams continue to scrape their gill plates against tank decor. They've been doing this for over 6 months now...

I've tried a 10mg/L bath of PP for 30mins.

I've tried praziquantel.

Is there anything else out there? Formalin?

This seriously has to be the most annoying thing I've experienced with fish keeping. Even more so than algae.

[phoenix44]

• UV steriliser.
  But firstly...
  Tried good old salt? its the best thing ever.
  
  also.... are you sure its gill flukes? if they do the odd rub on something its fine, but if its constant, then not so g

ood.

[Floater]

I wish it was only the odd rub . They seem to go into a fit every so often (multiple times while sitting and watching the tank) and just scrape on everything they can for about 10 seconds. Tail fin clamped, pectorial fins clamped.

I have a UV sterilizer running 24/7.

I haven't tried salt. 450L tank. Can I just dose the whole tank? Or use a bath of some sort?

Also have corydoras sterbai, ottos, neons in the tank.

[phoenix44]

dose the whole tank. all my tanks (except the puffer tank, and the snail tank) have a load of salt in them. its good for the fish.

[kiwiplymouth]

I agree with P44 but there are a few things that you should know.

Salt can be harmful to some catfish and scaleless fish.

Some plants don't like salt

It is better to use rock salt and not table salt. The iodine in table salt is fine but you don't know what other additives are in it like anti caking agent.

If you are still happy to add salt, don't be scared of it. I add about a handful per 100L

[Floater]

Add all the salt at once or add it slowly over a week?

[kiwiplymouth]

If it was my 450L tank I would chuck in a couple of handfuls and then add another couple of handfuls a few hours later.

Some people prefer to dissolve the salt in water first but I have never done this.

I have thrown a handful of salt into a 40L tank with no ill effects

[Floater]

Thanks for the advice, I'm willing to try anything at this point.

[kiwiplymouth]

Good Luck.

Just remember that salt is cumulative. I.E. the only way that salt can be removed is by water changes and not by filtration or dissipation.

If you do a 50% water change then you have only removed half the salt.

[Jennifer]

There are three main types of parasites and all three can cause flashing (but flashing does not always mean that there are parasites). The three types are:

Protozoa/metazoa (internal and external)

Cestodes/trematodes (e.g. flukes/tapeworms)

Nematodes (e.g. roundworms)

The treatment for each of these is different:

Protozoa/metazoa (something like metronidazole 5mg/L, dose once each day for 3-5 days w 25% w/c before each dose)

Cestodes/trematodes (something like praziquantel 2mg/L for 24 hours, repeat in 10 days)

Nematodes (something like levamisole 2mg/L for 24 hours)

If you want, I can tell you how to collect a skin, gill or fin biopsy and you can send it to me to look at under the microscope to attempt to definitively identify if it is any one of those parasites.

[Floater]

If you want, I can tell you how to collect a skin, gill or fin biopsy and you can send it to me to look at under the microscope to attempt to definitively identify if it is any one of those parasites.

Yes please. Would be very helpful to know what I'm dealing with.

Alternatively since I've tried prazi multiple times maybe I should just give metronidazole a shot? Does metro have any harmful side effects on a planted tank, anything to be wary of? Would I need to turn off the UV filter during medication?

[phoenix44]

always turn off the UV if you are medicating.

especially remember NOT to use it if you add any medicine with copper in it.

[Floater]

What happens with copper?

[phoenix44]

What happens with copper?

it explodes

no seriously... the UV breaks the Cu bonds with other chemicals and then I think you have Cu2+ ions floating around?

that's really really toxic.. just like CuSO4

[Floater]

it explodes

no seriously... the UV breaks the Cu bonds with other chemicals and then I think you have Cu2+ ions floating around?

that's really really toxic.. just like CuSO4

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

[Jennifer]

Get a hold of the following supplies from a local vet clinic and PM me when you have them so I can tell you how to do it:

3 small specimen pottles

1 1ml syringe

1 needle cap (the clinic should have loads of these and can give you some for free)

6 microscope cover slips

3 microscope slides

The clinic will have these (and they won't be expensive) but they may wonder what you are up to by asking for them!

Disclaimer: I am not proposing to diagnose any medical problems for your fish, I am only offering to share my personal expertise in indentifying ectoparasites by microscopic analysis. I cannot guarantee that I will be able to provide you with a result and what you do with any result is purely up to you. While the risk of collecting specimens is minimal, there is always a risk when you 'manipulate' an animal. I take no responsibility for any side effects that may occur from the handling of your fish during the process and I encourage you to research the procedure if you are at all worried. Just so ya know.

[phoenix44]

it mainly has to do with a product called cupramine.

best thing to get rid of ich. .. not sure if many freshwater aquarists use it, but used by salties.

the UV breaks the amine-copper bonds, increasing the toxicity of Cu.

as a general rule - when medicating, turn off UV.

in a salt water tank, turn off the UV at night as well.

[Jennifer]

best thing to get rid of ich. .. not sure if many freshwater aquarists use it, but used by salties.

Just for the record so nobody is confused, "Ich" or Ichthyopthirus multifilius is a freshwater protozoal parasite. A marine protozoal parasite that produces similar clinical signs is Cryptocaryon irritans and it is typically called 'marine white spot disease.'

[phoenix44]

Only cupramine needs to be used at 1/2 dose in FW, and treats Ichthyophthirius . far far cheaper to use white spot cure though. :lol:

This from the seachem site

Cupramine™ effectively eradicates Oodinium, Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium, Ichthyophthirius, and other ectoparasites of both freshwater and marine fish. It is superior to copper sulfate, chloride & citrate: it is non-acidic, less toxic to fish, remains in solution, and does not contaminate the filter bed. It is superior to chelates: it is fully charged (ionic), active at low concentrations, and is removable with carbon.

[Floater]

Get a hold of the following supplies from a local vet clinic and PM me when you have them so I can tell you how to do it:

3 small specimen pottles

1 1ml syringe

1 needle cap (the clinic should have loads of these and can give you some for free)

6 microscope cover slips

3 microscope slides

The clinic will have these (and they won't be expensive) but they may wonder what you are up to by asking for them!

Disclaimer: I am not proposing to diagnose any medical problems for your fish, I am only offering to share my personal expertise in indentifying ectoparasites by microscopic analysis. I cannot guarantee that I will be able to provide you with a result and what you do with any result is purely up to you. While the risk of collecting specimens is minimal, there is always a risk when you 'manipulate' an animal. I take no responsibility for any side effects that may occur from the handling of your fish during the process and I encourage you to research the procedure if you are at all worried. Just so ya know.

Ok, I'll get those things once I have a chance. This week sometime hopefully. Yeah I'm aware that fiddling with a fish, especially the gill area has its risks.

@ P44

Thanks for the info to do with the UV steriliser.

[Floater]

Just watched my male ram produce a long white poo. First one I've ever seen. Treat with metronidazole?

[ryanjury]

What have you been feeding them?

[Floater]

What have you been feeding them?

Colourbits, Mysis shrimp, white worms. I guess it could be the food :-? Had this diet for a long time, never seen a white poo before.

[Jennifer]

I would ask the same thing as Ryan. Also, do the fish appear to be losing condition at all - is the head appearing thinner or more bony? Any wounds or lesions? The white stringy bits are just inflammed intestinal tissue and as we know that can happen for a number of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with parasites and many of which resolve on their own. I personally would not be too worried if it is just the occasional white stringy poo. Might pay to feed some high fibre food like daphnia - if you can't get live daphnia, try the NovoDaph freezedried stuff and see if it resolves.

[Floater]

I think I might just dose with metro by the rate you (Jennifer) suggested earlier. Also this wouldn't require me to catch them (which is a pain in the butt) in order to get a gill/skin/fin sample. Seeings I've done a cycle of praziquantel doses. If I did with metronidazole it would just eliminate another possibility.

Any risks with metronidazole?