DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Hi, A few weeks back, for xmas, i was given a new juwel rio 240. At the time I just set it up, cycled, added fish and plants as it was. (pretty low tech) I have been looking for a while at planted tanks and looking at what i need so i do know a few things about them. What i have decided this week is that i would like to convert it into a planted tank and hopefully end up with a nice planted tank. There are a few problems though... 1: as a 16 yr old, I do not have unlimited funds so I cant just go out and buy co2, external filter, all the elixirs and potions needed. 2: My tank is already set up with fish and all. 3: I have a problem with staghorn algae... :evil: I know it is caused by high ammonia etc and it seems to have slown down a lot, but it is still slowly starting to pop up on rocks and my driftwood. It would be appreciated if i could get some advice from a Hobbyists Point of View and not a salesmans point of view. So i would like to know, What I need and what is of high importance. I am thinking this weekend that i will buy me some under gravel substrate for my plants and possibly some flourish excel to stop/slow the algae. I would also like to know what the average cost is for everything i need - i get about $40 a week so i cant really afford the most expensive so i would also like to know what is best value for money. Also, if anyone has had experience putting in undergravel substrate in a set up tank and can lend advice would be good. i have me my old 120L which i can put the current tank water parameters wont jump as much. Also what can i do about my staghorn algae that isn't too expensive? i have me 5 discus, a BGK and a couple of smaller fish in there which i dont really want to stress out or anything. I also have quite a lot of vall nana, some anubias nana, Java Fern, amazon sword, 2 tall swords, a small redish sword which WAS dying but seems to recovering, a baby tiger lotus which is starting to grow nice and fast, some cabomba, and quite a few dwarf sags which are propagating quickly now.(unfortunately the older ones have become infested with staghorn so they may have to go. Thanks in advance - Dennis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 do you have any sunlight directly on the tank? I do,and I believe it is the main cause of my staghorn algae that is trying to creep back after a harsh annihilation programme - my tank ammonia levels are zero. I got rid of mine originally through overdosing with Flourish excel (use search function to find other threads discussing it as I have waffled on enough about this already!), but some of my fish weren't enjoying it by the end. and don't forget to tell us where you are so people can tell you what's in your area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 I dont have very much sunlight, maybe 30 mins worth of early morning sun. my tank sits in a corner between 2 windows (and i usually keep my curtains pulled while at school for exactly this reason) but the Sunlight doesn't shine directly at the tank. I live in Mt pleasant hill - CHCH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 as a 16 yr old, I do not have unlimited funds so I cant just go out and buy co2, external filter, all the elixirs and potions needed. Tell me about it! I don't even get $10 a week, this is a very expensive hobby. But I do most of my stuff DIY. DIY CO2, light fittings from hardware stores/TradeMe, plain sand, etc. I tend to rip everything down when it turns to custard but you might not have that option? JMO and HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 You have some good lighting with that tank. If you keep a 12 hour photoperiod and add Flourish comprehensive 1ml/40L water every day or every other day you will see a huge improvement with your plants without the need to add additional substrate. DIY Co2 is very affordable and will also show improved growth. Algae is generally caused by an imbalance of nutrients, CO2/O2 and light. The Flourish excel will melt the vallisneria but in large doses it will get rid of algae. Discus are one of the types of fish that are very sensitive to Flourish excel so use it with caution. Most other fish will tolerate a daily dose of 1ml excel per 15L of water (over a couple of weeks) and this will halt the growth of just about all types of algae but you will need to remove badly affected leaves as they will never recover. Again though, take care with dosing when discus are involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floater Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 You could avoid over dosing with flourish excel by using a syringe to deliver a standard dose and squirting directly on the staghorn. I had green stringy algae problems and this method solved mine without needing to over dose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Thanks. Will The vallisneria die from dosing normally? Oh well, i can sell that and put the $$$ into new plants. =] I heard that scaleless fish (are discus scaleless also?) are affected more by meds? With this apply to my black ghost knife too? Any recommendations for tall and preferably top covering plants? that dont look messy like some stem plants? I also read somewhere soemthing about filter media turning off and excel and stuff? Anything i need to know about that? or do i need not worry...? Also, my java fern seems to be dying? yet the newer leaves on it look really healthy. Is the light too bright for them and they are getting "burnt", should i get rid of it? Also, my javamoss never seems to grow well.... I'm After some xmas moss if it would survive... Soo many questions! None of my friends keep fish or anything so i never really talked about it ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Your Val should be ok with a standard dose of Fourish Excel, it may not handle a double or triple dose as a shock dose - I dose 7ml in a 64l tank daily and it is fine, but be careful, what works for some does not work for others, and mine is far from a 'normal' tank. Corydoras do not like high doses of ferts, lost a few young'uns that way :oops: Your Cabomba should be a good top cover plant, when it gets too long pull it out, chop it down by half and replant the tops - this works for Heteranthera zosterifolia as well if you don't want it to look terrible when you trim it down and have to wait for it to grow out again to look good. Bit puzzled by this? I also read somewhere soemthing about filter media turning off and excel and stuff? Anything i need to know about that? or do i need not worry...? What temps you running the tank at? As for the staghorn, Phoenix44 had some a wee while ago, see if you can find the thread by using the search function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 I dont know what causes staghorn algae, but i doubt its ammonia cause I have none of that in my tank. staghorn has ruined my tank completely and im contemplating having to start over completely. I have gone through 2 bottles of algae rid and 1 bottle of commercial algae remover to no avail. as far as growing plants, your lighting is adequate. DIY CO2 may not be effective in a tank that size but wont hurt to try. JBL balls are relatively cheap and those should go under some of the plant roots under the gravel. That's about all you need to do in a juwel really. carbon is confused to be a media - which is technically isn't but no matter... it will remove any ferts, but not remove normal flourish that is the "liquid CO2" supplement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Will The vallisneria die from dosing normally? Yes, V. spiralis will melt away at almost any dose of excel. (EDIT: in my experience) V. americanis is much more resistant. Take care, a lot of species of straight Val are prohibited plants in NZ so buy from a reputable source so you know what you have. Incidentally, coboma also will melt with excel. (EDIT: in my experience) I heard that scaleless fish (are discus scaleless also?) are affected more by meds? With this apply to my black ghost knife too?This is often speculated but I have found that proper dosing is rarely a problem. Best thing to do is dose slowly and watch very carefully for signs of distress - if you see any distress, do a partial water change. Any recommendations for tall and preferably top covering plants? that dont look messy like some stem plants? Cryptocoryne crispatula 'Balansae' I also read somewhere soemthing about filter media turning off and excel and stuff? Anything i need to know about that? or do i need not worry...? I haven't heard this before and I haven't had any problems with excel when I have used it in the past. Also, my java fern seems to be dying? yet the newer leaves on it look really healthy. Is the light too bright for them and they are getting "burnt", should i get rid of it? Dieback is fairly normal for Java fern. Dose well with Flourish comprehensive and you will see a big improvement. Just remove all the old leave and the new leaves will take off. It is a slow growing plant though. Also, my javamoss never seems to grow well.... I'm After some xmas moss if it would survive...... Java moss and xmas moss are very similar. Both are slow growing and mostly will not grow much without nutrients. Again, add flourish comp and you will see a lot of new growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Twisted val in my tank is recovering and regrowing in the presence of the normal daily dose of flourish excel, it only started to die after a prolonged (on and off for 2 weeks?) period of double dosing. I wasn't brave enough to triple dose but it wasn't needed anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Alright then. I will buy me some excel tomorrow, and speak to the LFS ppl about what they think. I have some JBL balls atm, which i bought last week. The staghorn is still in controllable amounts, it is starting to grow on the rocks and wood, but that can easily be boiled/scraped off. Most of it is on the vall, on single leaves. What would make a good carpet plant? What i have read (not much) about glosso is that if conditions aren't right it will grow too high and not look as great... should my juwel lights be fine for that? Also, how much excel should I buy? i dont wanna buy too much, but i dont wanna end up going back in 2 weeks to buy more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 I bought a pot for $10 at WoW and it was enough for the bottom but it hasn't filled in yet, I have nasty algae problems Too much is better than too little, just be prepared for hours of chopping and planting. Took me 6+ hours :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 The recommended dosage rate for Flourish Excel is 5ml for 200l water daily or every other day, There is a larger initial dose of 5ml for every 40 litres when you first start or after a water change. http://www.seachem.com/Products/product ... Excel.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Alright. I'll strart with a 100ml then if they have one. Should last me long enough. Will probably spend the rest on plants. Any recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Check the prices per ml, sometimes it is more ecomomic to buy a bigger bottle in the long run, but it is not cheap either way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 green ones with those lights. swords will do well. as will tiger lotus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Yes, my 1 amazon sword(not sure if its the real thing, as i got it for free) is doing well, started off with like 4 leaves and now that it has settled in is growing fast. Same with my lotus. Except my cories and BGk keep up rooting it and it hasn't grown enough roots yet to stay in place, so i have to keep topping up with sand every few days. My larger swords started off well, then my nutrients must have run out and they started to die, i bought me some liquid ferts for it... helped a little bit, but the new leaves still died. They are doing much better in they week that i have had my JBL balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 pic of the tank? you need at least 1.5 - 2 inches of substrate as a general rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Haven't actually got any. Only a few crappy ones on my phone so i cant record how much it changed. May take some tomorrow if i find the camera. i have enough substrate, Im using sand, so its annoying to plant plants in because its always loose when u first put them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 put a few stones at the base of the plant until the roots establish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisP Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 The problem with stones is that i brought them home from the marlborough sounds, I find they look great, they are nice and flat and make good hiding places, but this means that i cant really add little ones without it looking out of place. I may buy me some new stones tomorrow if they are reasonably priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 i cant really add little ones without it looking out of place. If they're only temporary then what's the problem? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 You can also have a nice planted tank without adding co2, ferts, fancy substrate etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 Halswell quarry has some great free stones as does Birdlings flat. You can also find some great inexpensive Milford stones at Dyers Road Landscaping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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