oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 as per the subject - is this a rotkeil severum ? or a standard green severum ? and is it a boy or a girl ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 certainly not a "standard green", looks like a female rotkeil with pale colouration. Could be a hybrid from Phil Collis, or could just be an unhappy fish or lousy photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 dunno if i should take offence to that or not hehe - but the coloring of the fish in the photo is pretty much how it looks in person maybe slightly darker (im experimenting with / learning my new camera) - before i got her she would hide ALL the time i.e. you walk in the room and she would hide, go near the tank and she would hide, she use to be in a 200 + L tank all by herself and i think thats why she would hide all the time - when i got her i put it in quarantine for 3 weeks in a 40L cause thats all i had and it still tried to hide behind the filter - stupid fish - now that she is in my 200L with other severums etc its out front all the time and could be the boss of the tank so i assume its a happy fish now.... so you reckon it could be a rotkeil - anyone else got an opinion on it ? certainly not a "standard green", looks like a female rotkeil with pale colouration. Could be a hybrid from Phil Collis, or could just be an unhappy fish or lousy photo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 it's a very pretty fish Doesn't look like mine though, but i'm not sure what mine is either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 thanks mel - have you got a pic of you rotkeil ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 i will have to get a picture of them, they aren't green but also aren't red like the rotkeil so i will have to get someone to ID them. But i do like yours there, it's very nice i love it's big eye - yours looks like it may have golden in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 I haven't seen what the goldXrotkeil mutts look like at a large size yet, so can't be 100%. Looks like one to me though. My two girls (which are for sale right now too!) are a bit darker, but it could just be the substrate and environment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 this one use to be really unstable with her colors - when in the tank by herself she was so dark you couldnt see any color (she was almost black) but since being here with her friends the colors are stable and she looks like that all the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Could well be a "rotkeil" then, although what exactly constitutes one I'm not sure. Many in the trade [overseas] have questionable lineage, possibly hybridised somewhere along the line, and rotkeil isn't a valid species, just a handle given to a group of fish collected from a particular location in south america. Simply translated it mean 'red shoulder'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogod Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Could be? mine have bit more colour but also could be those so called rotkeils from trade me, some people call there fish all sorts just to make a few dollars and mislead peolple. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 yeah i guess thats the biggest issue - i have seen Phil Collis' rotkeil female but i cant remember for the life of my the colouring to know if they are similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new zealand discus man Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Rotkeil are a german strain..Actually there is only a green and all the rest are just like Discus and line breed...None of mine are old enough to see red but no sign of golden male in them.. Simple Males Have snake skin marking all over the face.. Was easier to actually ask me....Phill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Rotkeil are a german strain..Actually there is only a green and all the rest are just like Discus and line breed Are you sure about that? I thought 'red headed severums' aka Heros sp. rotkeil were a strain found in the wild.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynnie Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 I have a male Skippy and its same colour as Bulldogs. I noticed the colour got redder as the fish got older. approx - 1 year now. How old is yours? cool looking fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 yes they are found in the wild, a quick internet search will bring it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Phil - there is a very very slight amount of snakeskin pattern around the gill plate but its very faint and hard to see so going by the colors on my fish would you say male or female ? and would it be safe to assume its a rotkeil ? neither of my 2 green severums have this coloring around the shoulder or face. Rotkeil are a german strain..Actually there is only a green and all the rest are just like Discus and line breed...None of mine are old enough to see red but no sign of golden male in them.. Simple Males Have snake skin marking all over the face.. Was easier to actually ask me....Phill i "rescued" this fish so i dont know how old it is really - one of my others is slightly smaller than this one and is over a year old so i would say maybe 2 years ? I have a male Skippy and its same colour as Bulldogs. I noticed the colour got redder as the fish got older. approx - 1 year now. How old is yours? cool looking fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Rotkeil are a german strain..Actually there is only a green and all the rest are just like Discus and line breed...None of mine are old enough to see red but no sign of golden male in them.. There are four described species of the genus Heros, H. efasciatus, H. notatus, H. severus, and H. spurius. Given the wide distribution of the genus there are also many other fish that are yet to be described which could be new species, subspecies or just regional variants. Rotkeil/redheads are a wild variety from around Iquitos, Peru. Rotkeil is German for Red Shoulder. The name Heros Sp. 'Rotkeil' tells us that they are a member of the genus Heros but are yet to be classified so have been given the handle Rotkeil in the mean time, rather than a collection number or locality. The current thinking is that they are a subspecies or regional variant of H. efasciatus, although they have not yet been classified so they may yet be made a new species. The red/super red severums are a selectively bred line of the gold, which AFAIK is also a selectively bred line. Unfortunately people seem to have a habit of undoing selective breeding, be it mans or natures, by crossing different strains together even when the outcome is obviously going to be inferior to either of the parents. Here is an interesting article on the genus, and it shows why it is important for hobbyists to learn Latin names and correctly identify their fish, especially those who are breeding them. As the author mentions, fish of the genus Heros have been bred in captivity in Germany for close to a hundred years. Most of the fish we see here (probably the only exception being the rotkeils) are most likely hybrids of H. efasciatus. The true H. severus is a much more attractive fish and is actually a mouth brooder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 Skippy I'd be pretty confident in saying yours is a female based on the colouration of my two breeding pairs of Rotkeil. And on the subject of severums, check out this thread with pics of the true Heros severus; link. They're beautiful fish, and their mouthbrooding behaviour would be interesting to watch. I've suggested Hollywood try track some down from their German supplier, would anyone else be interested in them?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 5, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 thats good to know - im sure i have a couple of males in there as well so maybe when they grow up they might pair up - but then if they do i dont know if i want the agro when breeding. those 2 sevs you linked too have awesome colors - if i had a bigger tank i would look at getting more - but thats not in the budget and the wife is putting a stop to my MTS :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 5, 2010 Report Share Posted February 5, 2010 thats good to know - im sure i have a couple of males in there as well so maybe when they grow up they might pair up Male rotkeil/redheads?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 i have 2 greens, and 1 gold in that tank with the rotkeil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted February 6, 2010 Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 Its not really a good idea to cross breed them eh, they are being bred here (pure rotkeil, not rotkeil X gold) so with a bit of luck you should be able to find a male if you want to bred it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oO SKIPPY Oo Posted February 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 nah i have no real plans on breeding these guys - i just want to know if they do pair up so i can split them off i guess or sell / trade in for something different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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