breakaway Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Hi, I have just started up an aquarium 2 weeks ago (38L), and under the advisement of the local fish shop have added 10 neons and 2 platys to start the cycle. The tank has the 3 part filtration system (With the activated carbon, a sponge and ceramic noodles - I think its called a wet/dry trickle system, right?). After the end of week 1, I found some (3) platy fry in the filter and rescued them into a breeding trap and have been feeding liquid food 4 times a day since. But yesterday, I fed the fish in the morning, and when I got home in the evening I saw white spot on the fry, and then I got worried, and noticed that there are some white spots on two / three of the 10 neons. I immediately did a 30% water change (Tank was due for its weekly water change anyway) and increased the temperature (slowly) to 30 (usually 27-28) and added an appropriate amount of "Wunder White Spot Cure" to the tank. Have also purchased and installed a UV filter (A Blue Planet UView 9w / 140 lph). Have also removed activated carbon from filtraton system (The sponge and ceramic noodles are still in there) The fish seem fine, swimming around actively like they used to, and have a good (nomal) appetite, and have nice bright colours. From all the reading I've done on the internet, this is all I could have possibly done. Can more experienced people confirm this, and let me know what else is there to be done? How many days should I be dosing with white spot cure? And when dosing how often and how much water change do I need to do? TIA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 the UV filter will help you out with your problem, and it seems you have done everything correctly. you may add salt to your water, if you haven't already done so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Oh and dont bother with liquid food for livebearer fry, its more expensive and messy than grinding up some flake food with your fingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaway Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thanks for the advice guys. Is this Morcs from KB? With regard to adding salt to the water, I didn't want to mess with this since I haven't the faintest clue how I'd go about doing this Also, 1. How many days do I have to use white spot cure for? 2. How frequent and what volume should the water changes be while using white spot cure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 Thanks for the advice guys. Is this Morcs from KB? With regard to adding salt to the water, I didn't want to mess with this since I haven't the faintest clue how I'd go about doing this Also, 1. How many days do I have to use white spot cure for? 2. How frequent and what volume should the water changes be while using white spot cure? hehe small world eh :lol: Use the white spot cure as per the instructions, so on the 3rd day of treatment, do a half dose, and then leave until say the 7th day and do a 50% water change. I usually only ever use white spot cure in half doses and i have never ever had a fish riddled with white spots. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 If you want to use salt add it at 1 gram per litre of water. When you waterchange take a note of how much water you take out and replace it at the same rate. The reason you need to note how much you take out is that water evaporates and salt doesn't. The fish you have listed will be fine with salt but use rock salt not table salt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 The salt will clear up the white spot just as well as the white spot cure, I have found that the blue circle white spot cure works the best. Personally I am worried about the fact you stuck 10 neons and 2 plattys in quite a small tank to start the cycle, maybe the fish are under alot of stress and this could be why the fish have got white spot? I probably would have started off with just the plattys for 2 weeks then added 5 neons then in a few more weeks add another 5. For a few weeks I would only feed small amounts every second day to reduce the load on the filter and let it cycle. Have you breed measuring any of your water parameters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I too wonder how anyone could recommend that number of fish to cycle such a small aquarium. Neons are not very hardy either so using them to cycle is also a mistake, sorry to say. If that is the sort of advice your lfs is giving you then I would change shops as you are going to lose a lot of fish! Whitespot is caused by stress in 99.9% of cases. I suggest you get some accurate test readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I too wonder how anyone could recommend that number of fish to cycle such a small aquarium. Neons are not very hardy either so using them to cycle is also a mistake, sorry to say. If that is the sort of advice your lfs is giving you then I would change shops as you are going to lose a lot of fish! Whitespot is caused by stress in 99.9% of cases. I suggest you get some accurate test readings for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. I think the logic behind the neons is that they are probably the cheapest fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaway Posted December 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 ... ... Oh okay I was unaware of that. Will endavour to do more research before taking advice. Have just tested PH, came back with 7. Tested ammonia, came back with a result of inbetween 0 and 0.25 ppm. Don't have nitrate or nitrite test kits (have ordered them online, should be coming to me soon). The UV would be helping with the situation hopefully. The water is a lot clearer than it was yesterday. The amount of whitespot on the adult fish have definitely reduced compared to yesterday, but on the 3 fry the amount of white spots are about the same as yesterday before the first dose of Wunder White Spot cure. Have just dosed for a second time and it all looks okay for now. Everyone still eating well, and have bright colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 You need to aim to keep the ammonia at 0 so you really need to water change a smallish amount everyday. Because doing this is going to negate the white spot treatment using salt is probably your cheapest option. Ammonia will stress the fish which in turn will not help whitespot which is caused by stress and too much ammonia will kill your fish - which you will know anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Just remember, with any problem/sickness/disease, the first thing you should do is (and its free): Water change, aerate, water change, aerate. Keep the tank well aerated at all times, and do lots of water changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 lol water change and aeration won't do anything for white spot though.. :roll: Regardless of how cheap neons are good advice about stocking and cycling should be given by any petshop staff who knows anything about fish. There are plenty of ways to slowly stock a tank so they fish aren't stressed and don't get sick, if it hadn't have been noticed this person may have had white spot forever loosing all their fish thought it was too hard and then given up.. All because of some poor advice from pet shop staff. I am surprised you didn't pick up on this from working in a pet shop morcs? You must encounter it all the time.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 lol water change and aeration won't do anything for white spot though.. :roll: Regardless of how cheap neons are good advice about stocking and cycling should be given by any petshop staff who knows anything about fish. There are plenty of ways to slowly stock a tank so they fish aren't stressed and don't get sick, if it hadn't have been noticed this person may have had white spot forever loosing all their fish thought it was too hard and then given up.. All because of some poor advice from pet shop staff. I am surprised you didn't pick up on this from working in a pet shop morcs? You must encounter it all the time.. Water changes and gravel vac'ing every day or two is great for whitespot, its mass removal of cysts and combined with treatment works well. Its possible to cycle a tank with any fish, even in moderate numbers with no ill effects - so long as the cycling process is understood and extra maintenance is done (pwc). Agreed wouldnt recommend neons, but they are perfectly workable, just not the most suitable... And yes I do encounter it. A LOT. It seems to be the bane of my existance trying to educate people on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 lol water change and aeration won't do anything for white spot though.. :roll: agreed, but water changes will take ammonia back to 0 reducing the stress on the fish. Don't let this put you off fish, everyone gets whitespot at some stage. I hate to think how many fish I probably lost when I first started due to it. Sometimes the stress of bringing them home from the pet shop causes an outbreak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryanjury Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 It is certainly possible but you have to remember when dealing with people who have less experience in fish you have to make things easy for them. Testing the tank water or doing lots of water changes so you can cram a heap of fish in earlier is not easy.. IMO getting a few fish gradually and explaining how it all works would have been a better approach. Anyway this isn't the place for a discussion on this really, breakaway keep a good eye on your fish and water parameters and good luck getting rid of your white spot I hope your fish are all ok It might pay to do 2 water changes a week (redosing with meds as needed) and feed lightly to keep that ammonia under control and let the tank cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaway Posted December 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Hey, Ive just done a 50% wate change (gravel vac'd the tank and re-dosed accordingly. There seems to be a significant improvement over the amount of white spots on both the adults and the fry. Will continue dosing to ensure it doesn't come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 28, 2009 Report Share Posted December 28, 2009 Good one - keep it up for at least 7 days as it is a 7 day cycle. Treat it like this - once you've had experience in dealing with whitespot you'll be ready to move on to the next thing Fishkeeping is great, you will learn so much. I remember thinking when I first started that it was normal for fish to drop dead all the time. Nowdays I am unlucky if I lose more than 1 fish a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaway Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 Yeah - I'm prepared to do everything it takes. I did a 50% water change last night and re-dosed, and I've just now done an ammonia test, and it's come back at 0 ppm. Also did a pH test, and its 6.6! Must be the medication (Did a half dose today), as instructed on bottle. Fish still active as ever and eating well. Temperature still at 30 degrees, I read that the higher it is the better - do you guys reckon its safe to bump it up to 32 degrees? Or is that too much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I think 30 is high enough - I'm always worried that when my discus tank gets to 32 they might cook and turn white :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaway Posted December 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Okay just an update - this is day 5 of treatment. The white spots are gone from the neons, and the platys are fine (they never got any to begin with) and of the 3 fry, the one that had white spot has only one or two on his body. I've been doing 50% water changes every day (as I noticed that Wunder white spot cure reducues the pH (usually to 6.3)). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Strongly suggest making sure there is a lot of surface movement. Higher temps reduce the amount of oxygen in the water, as does that medication in a big big way. Good that its clearing up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Pleased to hear its clearing up. Keep up the treatment for a week after the last visible spots disappear. You could try reducing the amount of water being changed each day but I would keep up daily changes until the tanks been running for about a month and then slowly reduce the number of changes you do each week. pH being that low won't worry the fish, what upsets them is the pH changing all the time. Higher pH is more important if you have some cichlid types and is very important for breeding of some species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breakaway Posted January 3, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Another update - I've finished treating with Wunder white spot cure tonight (7 days total, 100% dose on days 1 & 2, 50% dose on days 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) and also put the activated carbon back into the water. Also did a big water change. All fish look great - no deaths! But the smallest of the 3 platy fry who was worst affected by the whitespot seems to have his growth stunted by the whitespot. He's significantly smaller than the other two fry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Good to hear its all cleared up - often with fry they grow at different rates and the biggest problem is that the smaller one will find it harder to compete for food so it may not be the whitespot thats slowed this one down When you feed just make sure that what ever it is it is small enough for the smallest platy mouth Keep up regular water changes as part of the routine but they will not need to be daily You've done a great job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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