chris_kerryn Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I suspect I have added this coral a bit early in my new system. I added this coral just over a week ago and it seems to have remained shut all today. Is this ok? It appears to have been doing ok for the last week though. I have tested the water and everything seems ok apart from the nitrites which are still high. My system is about 5 weeks old now. I have a bubble, a few mushrooms, polyps and a feather duster which all seem to be doing fine. Some of these have been in longer. I had been told it was ok to start adding stuff like this earlier than the fish. As I have no fish yet I am not feeding and the algae is running rampant.I am doing water changes weekly with a big algae clean and started adding the bacteria in a bottle to help cycling. The Ammonia has been at zero for about 1 week and quite low for about 2-3 weeks, but nothing is happening with the nitrite. Do I need to be feeding these corals separately before fish being added? Won't this make the ammonia shoot up again. Is the Elegance coral doomed? I have also noted from reading the recent posts that maybe the dead coral that I have in my tank should have been fully stripped of the existing stuff on it (which I had not been told!) could this be breaking down and stuffing up everything. I added about 1 kg of live rock from jetski steve about 2-3 weeks ago and thats when the ammonia dropped right off. from here though nothing is happening with the nitrite, which is holding up getting fish in there. Tank is 75l and has an external skimmer and trickle filter. Anyone got any ideas. At the moment I seem to learn everything when it is too late. Please dont tell me to throw all the coral out and strip it. Cheers Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 where are you located may be possible for someone to host your coral for a little while if necessary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 yeah i'd think a host for a while would be a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petplanet Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Not good. You should always cycle a tank in properly before adding livestock. You need zero nitrite. That stuff is deadly. Unloading the corals to someone else (or the shop you got them from) is a good idea. Fully cycle the tank in then get them back. If you can't unload the corals then do lots of water changes. You could use some nitrite absorber like Green X but I don't know how good they are. If you are using saltwater mix keep an eye on your pH as when mixed the pH can be very high. Best to mix it a day or two in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 no, not good at all!!! nitrite is slightly less toxic than ammonia. you need to wait much longer for the tank to cycle - if there are nitrites, then it hasnt cycled yet (then nitrites are converted to nitrates) you need to wait for your nitrifying bacteria colonies to build up first. this may take some time but i wouldnt introduce too many corals yet. in fact, no more than what you currently have. it takes time and patience - but thats well worth it than flushing money down the drain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I could look after it from thursday night for you, am in WGTN till then, ask jetski - he might be able to look after it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I suggest you read Eric Bournemans 'Elegance Coral Project' information of Reefcentral.com. There corals have an appauling chance of living in captivity. If its dead or dieing remove it and don't let it rot in your tank. Patience is required to keep marines and 10x more important for corals. I highly suggest you ask for advice before purchasing your next animal and start out with something a little more hardy. FYI The Elegance coral is banned for importation in Europe because of the low survival rates. Good luck Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 This may all be a great lesson in the end. 1st lets try and find a temp home for it... anyone (my offer still open from thursday when i get back...) 2nd - Did the LFS ask "anything" about your tank etc before selling it to you? 3rd - relax - I am not about to throw any stones and suggest we all think back to one of our own learning episodes :roll: :roll: but agree these guys do not have a good life expectancy.... BTW my blue linkia still seems to be doing fine Pies.... they can REALLY move when they want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 i assume since you got rock from steve you're in auckland. you can keep the coral in my refugium in the meantime if you like. PM me if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Do you think its the tank thats failing or the coral? I suspect its the coral. I doubt there is anything so wrong with the tank that the coral should be removed. Read the threads on this coral, there is a high likleyhood it will just die, no ones fault except the people who make the rules that allow it to be brought in. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 There is nothing inherently wrong with elegance corals, say as opposed to Dendronephthya. Elegance corals have been successfully kept in captivity for many years, and don't require specialist care or feeding. This phenomenon is relatively recent, and is most likely due to poor handling by exporters, much like the problems with bangaii's and other selected fish, this disease seems to be very contagious, and single coral in a exporters holding tank could infect the whole lot. That's the impression I got from reading the threads a while back anyway. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben19185074 Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Your N-cycle is not completed yet.....it takes around 40days. (Yea i know it is so hard to wait for that long before adding stuff in) Corals needs a better water quality then fish. A strong fish maybe able to live through a N-cycle but not much of a chance a corals will. Taking it back to the shops or getting someone to look after it will be the best way. By the way what light are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AW Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I have a theory thats it the advancement of reef keeping technology and equipment thats making Catalaphyllia hard to keep. I had a frag years ago which I got given to me from hollywood, grew fanatastic with a wetdry filter and standard fluros, no skimmer or MH lighting. Killed it off when i changed my system to a highly skimmed / mh lit enviroment. Bearing in mind they are a lagoon type coral / typical in sand with probable higher nutrients levels than that on a reef. Oddly enough when I started off, they were considered an easy to keep corals (already mentioned above), hard corals such as acroporas and the like were the difficult/impoosibe. Now its reversed with the technology and most systems aimed at keeping these hard type of corals. Of course the Coral additives / supplement scene is getting more intence and no doubt someone will find the magice ingredient to make cats' more happy in the modern equipped aquarium. Probably be able to keep the Goniopera too with the same magic potion. Are you using NSW or AW for the water changes. I have an unproven un-sciencetific gut feeling that NSW will help the cycle period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 Do you think its the tank thats failing or the coral? I suspect its the coral. I doubt there is anything so wrong with the tank that the coral should be removed he just said he has high nitrites. his coral is dying because his tank is not fully cycled. i doubt it would have been purchased in a "failing" state from the LFS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 The problem affecting elegance corals is not really anything to do with lack of nutrients. Eric Borneman had one in his tank for years, and as soon as he put one into this system for temporary holding, both died within a week. It seems to be some contagious bacterial/viral disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 in that case, he can keep it then!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 1, 2004 Report Share Posted November 1, 2004 I wouldn't be so harsh on the whole coral in a cycling tank thing. Eric Bournemans articles suggest that for stone corals, no reason they can't go in right from the start. Fish are far more adverseley effected. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted November 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Just after I posted this problem, the coral opened up to a fully bloated state and looked like exploding, then it went back to normal. It appears to be back to normal during today. I will keep an eye on it and if it goes bad again, I may need to try to get someone to look after it. Thanks for the offers. With regards to the dead coral stuff, I meant that I brought dead coral rock for the aquascaping and it still has some stuff on it, although it would be impossible to scrub off. May be better to just leave it. It doesn't appear to be doing much. the algae seems to be making more mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 Chris - Although its hard here is some advice for what its worth. Don't add anything more to your tank for the next 4-6 weeks. Nothing (except Live Rock if you are going to add more, more = better). Try and do a 20% or more water change every week. If you do this, I am sure that in 6 weeks time you tank will be ready for some livestock, and you will have a little more imediate success with it. This cycle time is important, people with freshwater tanks often dismiss the cycle but it saltwater its a different story. The smaller you tank, the worse it gets too. So slow down on the live stock, give the tank a change to settle and everything will work itself out. Good luck Pieman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted November 2, 2004 Report Share Posted November 2, 2004 I am curious to know how you get on. The bloating is often the last stage (bloated body, shrunken tenticles) before the start to recess, rot and die. If you know its dieing for sure (you can see the rock skelleton behind the flesh), pull the coral. You really don't want that things dieing and decaying in your tank. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted November 3, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2004 I tested the water again tonight and my nitrites have dropped right off finally down to about 0.35 from about 6+. The system is now about 6 weeks old so it seems to be going to schedule. The coral still seems ok. the tentacles are still out and I prodded it to check for movement and it is still alive. Some of the tentacles have a brownish tinge to them, but this could be due to the proliferation of brown algae I had. Most of the algae is green now and it is growing less rapidly. Hopefully the worst is over, until I start buying fish! :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted November 4, 2004 Report Share Posted November 4, 2004 then listen to good advice and DONT BUY FISH YET Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_kerryn Posted November 5, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 It has been recessing quite deeply for the last couple of nights. It only does it at night though really. During the day it seems to be ok. do you think it is on its last legs. would it be too late to transplant it to another tank as some people have offered or is it too late for that. I was hoping not to have to get rid of it as it also has a heap of baby feather dusters growing on it which I would have liked to keep and they seem too small to transplant. I would load up a photo if I knew how so people can see. Aside from that, if my nitrites are at zero which they nearly are now can I not start adding fish? Do I need to wait even further again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 try to wait Chris as yr tank is still very new with little load & if you add fish you will get more nitrite spikes, also keep doing the water changes regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fay Posted November 5, 2004 Report Share Posted November 5, 2004 If you send it to [email protected] I will put it up for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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