Help setting up a planted aquarium

[bobo]

Hey guys,

More questions

I have a 60l tank. At the moment it has quite a few plants in it, but I would like to become more expert in this area, and plant it more densely.

I don't have heaps of money, so want to get good results for the budget I have. I was thinking of spending ~$20 a week on bits and pieces for the tank- i.e. gradually building the tank up as a bit of a project.

The tank has in it:

1 Dwarf Gourami

2 Platies (1 tiny one)

3 Harlequin Barbs

3 Neon Tetras

Plants

Log

I plan on adding more fish once a pH issue I have has sorted itself out. The tank was bought from HFF, as a package, and has a light built into the lid (it says 240V 50Hz, don't know if that helps - there are other labels).

I think I have a fairly poor substrate - just have some standard multi-hued gravel.

With planting, most plants have done fine, except for any thin 'stalky' ones that you plant in bunches.

Would anyone be able to tell me the first steps of improving this aquarium?

I was thinking I should take out the substrate and put a new one in?

What other stuff should I get? Nutrients etc? Not really interested in how fast the stuff grows, as long as it does.

Can I take plants from local streams? Not dangerous for the environment, for the fish, etc? Can these plants survive in warm water? Not only would it be cheaper, I actually think it would make for an interesting tank and that they would be fun to collect

I appreciate any help!

Cheers

BoBo

Tank:

[SamH]

(will post a pic if necessary and someone can tell me how)

viewtopic.php?t=2406

Now lets get started on all these questions 8)

I was thinking of spending ~$20 a week on bits and pieces for the tank- i.e. gradually building the tank up as a bit of a project.

Better to save for a while then by all the bits at once, redo the tank, run without fish and then let it mature with fish. Less hassle but you'll need more than 1 tank.

The tank was bought from HFF, as a package, and has a light built into the lid (it says 240V 50Hz, don't know if that helps - there are other labels).

Is it branded or a custom kit? What we need to know is the wattage of the light, type of light it is and what colour temperature it is (e.g 2400k, 4000k, 6500k etc)

I think I have a fairly poor substrate - just have some standard multi-hued gravel.

That's okay, I just use gravel in my 3 footer and the plants are doing great. I prefer sand though. I advise against doing gravel vaccums as this takes alot of the fish waste that the plants can use out of the substrate, it's basically free fertilizer!

Would anyone be able to tell me the first steps of improving this aquarium?

Need a bit more info but it sounds like you're on the right track. Choosing a tank and/or style you like would be great, then we could go from there. Some popular styles are Dutch Planted and Nature Aquarium. Google these or look through the entries for 2008 AGA Aquascaping contest.

I was thinking I should take out the substrate and put a new one in?

If the substrate you have at the moment is quite large then go for a finer one. Single coloured substrate looks good but seeing no substrate at all is better

What other stuff should I get? Nutrients etc? Not really interested in how fast the stuff grows, as long as it does.

My plants seem to be doing great under high lighting, DIY CO2 and nothing else. Haven't dosed ferts in ages :oops: but my plants aren't suffering.

Can I take plants from local streams? Not dangerous for the environment, for the fish, etc? Can these plants survive in warm water?

I can't really say but I tried it once and there was some sort of bug in the soil the came with, ended up tearing down the whole tank. Ask Stella if it's bad for the fish, most plants will survive at higher temps for a while.

Hope that helps

[spoon]

some plants may also be noxious weeds and be illeagal to have so do some research before go out plant hunting but in general most aquatic plants that you are likely to find heaps of will do better in tropical water than in cold water

[stillnzcookie]

Have you considered adding a background of some sort? It will make the whole tank look neater, and give it a bit more depth. Different people will have different opinions on what looks best, so look at some of the members' tanks on here and see what you like! We will soon be shifting our tank, and adding a background, but I haven't decided yet what I want - so many choices...

I think fish are supposed to feel more secure with a dark substrate, and will therefore display better colours, but again, it's your tank, so choose what you like best.

Depending on what you are doing, I don't see why you can't do your tank up in stages, but I would advise getting a plan sorted out first, so you can do it in a logical order and end up with a cohesive finished product.

Have fun, and let us see progress photos!

[Morcs]

See my thread: I had it step by step of the setup and equipment ect.. that I used.

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41180

and sams thread also (cant be bothered finding the link) of nano planted tank projects

[twinkles]

in my inexperianced opinion, the plants you have look pretty good. I think if you change the substrate to a dark gravel or sand, and add a background, you'll find they stand out brilliantly and of course they'll grow in over time to fill it more.

[SamH]

and sams thread also (cant be bothered finding the link) of nano planted tank projects

Gee, thanks Morcs 8) The three footer thread was 3 below your nano one

This one is about my 3 footer (Good if you like to read): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41055

2 footer, also good for a read:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40214&start=0

[bobo]

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate it.

Just gonna respond to a couple of you:

[bobo]

viewtopic.php?t=2406

Now lets get started on all these questions 8)

I was thinking of spending ~$20 a week on bits and pieces for the tank- i.e. gradually building the tank up as a bit of a project.

Better to save for a while then by all the bits at once, redo the tank, run without fish and then let it mature with fish. Less hassle but you'll need more than 1 tank.

Not possible to do a bit at a time? I'm an impulsive kind of guys and i want to start now!!! Hehe

The tank was bought from HFF, as a package, and has a light built into the lid (it says 240V 50Hz, don't know if that helps - there are other labels).

Is it branded or a custom kit? What we need to know is the wattage of the light, type of light it is and what colour temperature it is (e.g 2400k, 4000k, 6500k etc)

How can I tell this info? Old tank

I think I have a fairly poor substrate - just have some standard multi-hued gravel.

That's okay, I just use gravel in my 3 footer and the plants are doing great. I prefer sand though. I advise against doing gravel vaccums as this takes alot of the fish waste that the plants can use out of the substrate, it's basically free fertilizer!

I don't vacuum the gravel for that very reason. I think I'm a little confused though. Should I have two layers on the ground? One that's like a fertiliser/nutrient layer and then a thicker 'gravel' on top?

Would anyone be able to tell me the first steps of improving this aquarium?

Need a bit more info but it sounds like you're on the right track. Choosing a tank and/or style you like would be great, then we could go from there. Some popular styles are Dutch Planted and Nature Aquarium. Google these or look through the entries for 2008 AGA Aquascaping contest.

Will google once I stop dual tasking an MMO and a fishie forum at the same time!

I was thinking I should take out the substrate and put a new one in?

If the substrate you have at the moment is quite large then go for a finer one. Single coloured substrate looks good but seeing no substrate at all is better

I'm guessing by the 'sub' insubstrate that the substrate is actually the bottom, nutrient layer, with another layer on top?

What other stuff should I get? Nutrients etc? Not really interested in how fast the stuff grows, as long as it does.

My plants seem to be doing great under high lighting, DIY CO2 and nothing else. Haven't dosed ferts in ages :oops: but my plants aren't suffering.

Can I take plants from local streams? Not dangerous for the environment, for the fish, etc? Can these plants survive in warm water?

I can't really say but I tried it once and there was some sort of bug in the soil the came with, ended up tearing down the whole tank. Ask Stella if it's bad for the fish, most plants will survive at higher temps for a while.

Hope that helps

Cheers mate, appreciate you taking oyur time.

P.S. does everybody have a scrolling bug on this forum? Whereby when you have typed quite a bit, it won't stay scrolled down?

[SamH]

No worries Bobo, nothing else to to this weekend :lol:

Yeah, I get that scrolling thing sometimes, not just on these forums either.

[bobo]

See my thread: I had it step by step of the setup and equipment ect.. that I used.

http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41180

and sams thread also (cant be bothered finding the link) of nano planted tank projects

Had a quick read. Your tank looks great, and I think I already learned a little... hehe. Are fish fine in the water when it's cloudy? i.e. it's only a aesthetics problem?

Will look up Sam's when I have some reading time later.

Cheers!

[bobo]

No worries Bobo, nothing else to to this weekend :lol:

Yeah, I get that scrolling thing sometimes, not just on these forums either.

I chucked some more questions in the above post... just didn't come out in a different colour.

I try edit now

[twinkles]

for the light, if you take the hood off there should be writing on the bulb that has the wattage and possibly the k-rating.

Its a tank i've seen before, i'm sure someone will be able to tell you the likely brand and model.

[SamH]

Mine are here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41055

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40214

The first one has setup right from the start, the second is just a rescape and modification.

Cloudy water usually doesn't harm the fish as long as you know it's just when you've stirred up the substrate.

[bobo]

Mine are here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=41055

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=40214

The first one has setup right from the start, the second is just a rescape and modification.

Cloudy water usually doesn't harm the fish as long as you know it's just when you've stirred up the substrate.

Cheers Sam!

Some night time reading

[bobo]

for the light, if you take the hood off there should be writing on the bulb that has the wattage and possibly the k-rating.

Its a tank i've seen before, i'm sure someone will be able to tell you the likely brand and model.

I did look for it, but I didn't see it - will check again later. Cheers

[SamH]

Not possible to do a bit at a time? I'm an impulsive kind of guys and i want to start now!!! Hehe

It is possible to do it a bit at a time but I'd do it all at once. Another option is to do it bit by bit and if you're not happy when you have all the gear, redo it.

How can I telll this info? Old tank

Should be on the tube/bulb. Is it a bulb or a tube by the way?

I don't vacuum the gravel for that very reason. I think I'm a little confused though. Should I have two layers on the ground? One that's like a fertiliser/nutrient layer and then a thicker 'gravel' on top?

You can have a nutrient layer under regular gravel but only if there isn't at least 5cm of total substrate depth (enough to hold the plants roots)

Will google once I stop dual tasking an MMO and a fishie forum at the same time!

Haha! That's what tabs are for.

I'm guessing by the 'sub' insubstrate that the substrate is actually the bottom, nutrient layer, with another layer on top?

The substrate is just the covering of the bottom.

HTH

[bobo]

Cheers a bunch Sam.

Can't tell the bulb right now - I can't actually make out the writing because it is on the wrong side of the bulb as such. Not really sure of the difference between a tube and a bulb.... looks like both to me...

I will post wattage tomorow - won't be back on forum tonight.

Again, thanks for your help.

[bobo]

More questions ;p

So, went to the local pet store and they ran a GH and KH test - I'm not sure they knew how to intepret the results, but I went online and intepreted them. After 4 drops the KH turned yellow and after 8 the gH turned deep green. So I think the KH is 4 and the GH is 8. They gave me some crushed up shells to raised the hardness, which I assume makes the pH more stable. Do I just leave them in permanently, or test my water again in order to decide when to take the shells out?

I think I want to make a 'dutch style' aquarium, which if I understand it relies more on the plant life, while the 'nature' style seemed to involve more 'aquascaping, which seems out of my league atm. I do want it to get heavily planted and overgrown.

So, speaking to the shop lady she said:

1) I should make my first layer 'First layer pure layerite' and then put my gravel or whatever over the top. Is this what you would use as a base? I want something decent, without going for the flashest out there. Can anyone recommend a product? I'm also confused as it said to wash it on the packet, yet I read elsewhere not to wash it, in order to keep the nutrients. After, I have laid down this layer, do I then add say a nice sand/thin gravel? How thick for each layer?

2) She said I could use 'root tabs' - necessary?

3) She said I could use API leaf zone? Necessary? Other similar products?

4) and I should have T5 light bulbs? Don't even know what I currently have. I can't see the wattage due to where the labelling is on the bulb and I am unsure how to detach the bulb in order to investigate. So I provide a photo:

I thought I would do the home made CO2 thing, it didn't seem horrendously difficult.

Anyway, thanks a bunch for the continued help people!

[SamH]

Do I just leave them in permanently, or test my water again in order to decide when to take the shells out?

Permanently. If you take them out, the GH/KH will go back to what it was originally after a while.

I think I want to make a 'dutch style' aquarium, which if I understand it relies more on the plant life

:bounce: Yay! Haven't seen one of these done in ages, can't wait.

1) I should make my first layer 'First layer pure layerite' and then put my gravel or whatever over the top. Is this what you would use as a base? I want something decent, without going for the flashest out there. Can anyone recommend a product? I'm also confused as it said to wash it on the packet, yet I read elsewhere not to wash it, in order to keep the nutrients. After, I have laid down this layer, do I then add say a nice sand/thin gravel? How thick for each layer?

No, I wouldn't use it because I can't afford it. If I could then I'd give it a go, only heard good things about it. I just use regular gravel or sand and my plants do great. Total substrate height depends on which plants you want to keep, some plants require a deep substrate to hold their roots down. Normally it can be 3-5cm at the front sloping to 5-7cm at the back.

2) She said I could use 'root tabs' - necessary?

I've used JBL Fert Balls and these had no ill effects. In saying that, they also showed me no noticeable benifits either.

3) She said I could use API leaf zone? Necessary? Other similar products?

No harm in using it although I'd go down the PMDD route instead.

4) and I should have T5 light bulbs? Don't even know what I currently have. I can't see the wattage due to where the labelling is on the bulb and I am unsure how to detach the bulb in order to investigate.

I don't have T5 bulbs, again, too expensive but my T8's and CFL do fine. Not sure what kind of light you have though.

[bobo]

You're a champ mate.

I'll start this during the next couple of weeks, depending on total costs.

Do I need to worry about being too 'nutrient rich', before I put in all the plants?

My last question... I promise... for a while... what kind of strength light do I need? One bulb enough? Total watts, etc? Ball park figure

Then I'll try figure out how strong my current one is.

CHEEERS!

[stillnzcookie]

If the crushed shells have the same effect as the coral rock we used, then add a bit at a time until your pH stabilises (I think it is possible to add too much?). You will need to leave it there, and probably replace it/top it up occasionally.

We only have a gravel substrate, and we used the root tabs when we first set up our tank. Our plants certainly grew well (we were pruning by about 50% every week!), but we have since added quite a few plants without using them, and they seem to be doing fine too. I doubt you would need them if you are using a base layer as well as gravel or sand. I now take the attitude that the fish waste is adding fertiliser for the plants, and we only gravel vac the open areas of the tank. We test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate regularly and they are always all 0.

We also used API leaf zone initially, but not any more. I think it can be helpful for plants that get most of their nutrients from the water, but I also think it was responsible for some of our algae problems early on.

I think most of the hoods with built in lights have relatively dim lights, which may not be sufficient for growing lots of plants. I'm not sure that you can just replace the tube with a different one - I'd imagine it's like any light fitting that has a maximum wattage that can be safely used.

[SamH]

Do I need to worry about being too 'nutrient rich', before I put in all the plants?

Nutrient rich is great if you have enough fast growing plants to use them all. But if there's too much, then algae will take advantage of it and the fish may suffer.

My last question... I promise... for a while... what kind of strength light do I need? One bulb enough? Total watts, etc? Ball park figure

I'll need the height of the tank and the plants you'd like to grow. I have four tubes over my 54L but just for intensity and colour balance.

[bobo]

If the crushed shells have the same effect as the coral rock we used, then add a bit at a time until your pH stabilises (I think it is possible to add too much?). You will need to leave it there, and probably replace it/top it up occasionally.

We only have a gravel substrate, and we used the root tabs when we first set up our tank. Our plants certainly grew well (we were pruning by about 50% every week!), but we have since added quite a few plants without using them, and they seem to be doing fine too. I doubt you would need them if you are using a base layer as well as gravel or sand. I now take the attitude that the fish waste is adding fertiliser for the plants, and we only gravel vac the open areas of the tank. We test ammonia, nitrite and nitrate regularly and they are always all 0.

We also used API leaf zone initially, but not any more. I think it can be helpful for plants that get most of their nutrients from the water, but I also think it was responsible for some of our algae problems early on.

I think most of the hoods with built in lights have relatively dim lights, which may not be sufficient for growing lots of plants. I'm not sure that you can just replace the tube with a different one - I'd imagine it's like any light fitting that has a maximum wattage that can be safely used.

Cheers Cookie.

I have put in half the size of my fist (and I'm small...) so hopefully that isn't too much. I stuck it in a stocking and dumped it at the back of the tank, since I couldn't fit it in the filter.

I guess the light will be the expensive part of all this...

I just redid my water tests, and came in pH 7 (just did a H20 change, shows how much it fluctautes with its weekly water change), and 0 ammonia, o nitrites and 4ppm NItrates(below the first indicator), which would suggest trace levels to me, or just testing inconsistencies.

FINAL FINAL questions... I add a couple of ml of Stres Zyme and Stress Coat every water change (as directed), should I?

Cheers Cheers!

[bobo]

Do I need to worry about being too 'nutrient rich', before I put in all the plants?

Nutrient rich is great if you have enough fast growing plants to use them all. But if there's too much, then algae will take advantage of it and the fish may suffer.

My last question... I promise... for a while... what kind of strength light do I need? One bulb enough? Total watts, etc? Ball park figure

I'll need the height of the tank and the plants you'd like to grow. I have four tubes over my 54L but just for intensity and colour balance.

Foot tall. Haven't decided on plants yet, since I haven't decided whether to pillage some streams or... gulp... buy the plants (gasp)!

Cheers