stillnzcookie Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Hi, I've just posted about quarantining new fish, but before we get them, I need some help with our Ph problems! We have a planted 60L tank with (for now) 3 harlequin rasboras and 3 panda cories. It is currently running really well, and we have never had issues with ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, but we have a constant battle to keep the Ph stable. As far as we can tell, the problem we have is that our tap water is soft, so the Ph of the water coming out of the tap fluctuates widely - we have measured the tap water at everything from Ph 6.2-7.8. Last year we had problems with the Ph dropping suddenly, and we lost a few fish before we realised what the problem was. We added some coral rock to our filter, which seems to have stabilised it slightly, but how can we keep it stable when the tap water is so variable? We currently do a 30-50% weekly water change, but I suppose this is making the problem worse? If we do less than this, are we likely to start having problems with ammonia etc? Apart from adding Ph 7.0 at every water change, what else can we do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 well for starters you should stop using pH 7.0 use calcium blocks, coral and cuttlefish shell to raise your KH and that will stabilise your pH. once it reaches a stable level, leave it be. any where between 6 and 8 is ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Use baking soda, only put a little bit in and test how much KH goes up by More coral would be a better option long term though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 What if you wanted to keep it stable in the slightly acidic range? I want mine to stay at 6.6 ...but it seems to be dropping a bit more again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 What if you wanted to keep it stable in the slightly acidic range? I want mine to stay at 6.6 ...but it seems to be dropping a bit more again. you would use peat, driftwood, leaves etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Ok...does the peat make the water stable though? Or will it make the pH go down even more? Does it tint/colour the water? I do have 1 large piece of driftwood in there and will try to add another if it stops floating I guess i should just wait it out first and see if it stops. I mean I don't mind if it goes down to 6.4 as I want it slightly acidic, but would prefer it to stop there I probably should get one of those lower range pH test kits... Do you recommend the use (not over-use) of pH UP or pH DOWN. If not, why not? Cheers....hopefully this is still helping the original poster....I don't like hijacking threads TOO much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 since nzcookie has asked about ph up and down, ill explain why i dont like it. say your tank water pH is 5.5. you are not happy with this and so use pH up (or proper) to increase the pH to 7.0. that's fine, but the next time you do a WC, your pH will plummet cause there is no natural buffering in the water. then after you do your WC - you add some more pH up to stabilise the pH. so in the mean while, your pH has gone up - down - up, and its done it really fast. the only right way to use those products in my opinion is to pre treat a large amount of water, and then when you remove water from the tank, add the pretreated water to the tank so there is no change in the pH. its a great product, don't get me wrong - but 99% of users don't use it correctly - mainly because they either cannot grasp the concept of pH stability and KH and some are not told about how to correctly use it. the instructions on the packet from my understanding assume that the water has a natural buffer once the product has been added. Use the pondcare wide range pH test kits. they range from pH 5.0 - 9.0 peat does tint the water and make it yellow. some like that (ghastly) colour. i always have a load of carbon in my filters to take it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Whats KH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LYNDYLOO Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 KH is a measurement of how Hard or Soft your water is Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Whats KH http://tinyurl.com/nn9hy6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandysme Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Wow that did my head in...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquila Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Ok cool. Yeah I don't want my water yellow...not for this tank, probably not for any tank unless i'm going super authentic amazon and adding some river dolphins :lol: I think i will try some peat...maybe just use a bit at first and add some more carbon to the filter. Is there a way to pre-soak it to drain some of the colour initially? Will definitely try to get that second piece of driftwood in there. I definitely don't want my pH going up and down all the time especially not if i want to eventually get a elephant nose or some discus. I like the idea of pre-treating the water's pH though before adding it to the tank. So if you want your pH to remain stable at a slightly alkaline level, do you want your KH levels higher? And if u want it slightly acidic..than lower? I really need to read up on this water hardness thing some more... What do you think of those continuous pH monitor things? I saw them at the store...they have little circular scales and the reader in the middle. Apparently they update the pH every 10 minutes. Aside from having a narrower range, do you find they work accurately as a good backup to regular water testing? (They also have an ammonia one too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillnzcookie Posted September 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 Thanks for the replies. Perhaps I should clarify that, since we added the coral rock to the filter last year, our pH is no longer dropping suddenly. BUT if, for example, the pH is sitting at 7.0 and we do a water change and the TAP water is 7.6, then the pH of the tank obviously will rise. Then, the following week, the pH of the tap water might be at 6.4, so the pH of the tank will drop. What I want to know is how we deal with this? Do we need to treat the tap water before it goes in, and if so, with what? Should we be doing smaller water changes as well? It's school holidays soon (I'm a teacher), so I'm going to test the pH in the tank (and possibly the tap water too) each day for a week, just to find out what is happening (if anything) between water changes as well. My husband is in charge of cleaning the tank every week, but he is a chemical engineer, so he happily throws in the pH 7.0, and has also bought some stuff to increase the KH, but I'm sure there are better ways to keep things stable. Our tank is actually running well at the moment - the plants are growing (so, unfortunately, is the algae), the fish are healthy and vibrantly coloured and two of the harlequins spawned last week, so it can't be too bad in there! However, it has been an ongoing problem which I want to try to sort out as much as possible before we go adding any new fish. Just as an aside, I'm finding it frustrating that we have done lots of research, chosen compatible, peaceful fish, cleaned our tank weekly, tested the water and tried our best to do everything in the best way possible and we have still had quite a lot of problems with our tank and yet, people who just throw any old fish in together, have completely haphazard maintenance routines and never test the water, have thriving tanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted September 19, 2009 Report Share Posted September 19, 2009 you need to check to see if it does actually rise. it will not have to rise - as the water contains buffers... buffers resist pH change, and so if you add water of a different pH - your pH should stay stable. also remember fish never have been able to detect pH and will never be able to do so, its the concentration of ions that matter - pH is just a way that we can read and understand it. google pH and buffers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharn Posted September 22, 2009 Report Share Posted September 22, 2009 If your tank water was changing too much after waterchanges just do smaller more frequent ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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