RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 If steve and nick do not do some form of direct selling then the prices to us keen guys will not change, so one of us will start importing....... I suspect that will happen anyway as nick says its a logical extension of our hobby and its probably the best/most cost effective way to stock a large tank anyway. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 its probably the best/most cost effective way to stock a large tank anyway. It's definitely not the most cost effective way to stock a large tank by any means. It would have to be a swimming pool size tank before this was the case. Steve - it won't be a secret for ever. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 It's definitely not the most cost effective way to stock a large tank by any means. It would have to be a swimming pool size tank before this was the case. This is completely untrue. I know someone here in NZ who built his own facility specifically to fill his 6 footer. He now has 2 six footers. He has brought in 3 shipments, all for himself. he did it for economic reasons, it was cheaper for him to do it himself. He put no value on his own time. Remeber you can just box of a corner of you garage or similar, if you have ever seen a facilty there is not much to it. Which makes sense. If it costs say $15-$20 per item, that would retail for $100-$120 then it doesn't take long to swing in your favor. Setting up a facility (espeically a small one) doesn't take much. If I had the time i'd love to do it myself. Just don't have the time. Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 he he dont you hate secrets :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Well I am back from my visit to the UK and I could not believe the price of Corals, Fish and equipment compared to NZ. NZ is so expensive it is criminal.I am really disallusioned with pricing here. Yellow tangs..NZ$56 Royal Gramma..NZ$42 Clowns..NZ$36 Blue tangs..NZ$42 Basically 1/3 the retail price Corals Acropora(and most SPS)..very colourful large size NZ$120..Med NZ$70..Hollywood size NZ$50 Large Clams NZ $50 Softies NZ$42. The quality and colour of the corals we just donot see in our shops in NZ With regards to Equipment if it is displayed on a web page it will be at RRP which is set by the manufacturer and the retailer is not allowed to state any other price. That is why all the prices for equipment in the UK seems expensive, but the reality is very different when you talk to the shops. there is a skimmer in Hollywood at present for $900+ a nice little hang on model. I could buy them in the UK for NZ$376. The list goes on and one, I am just glad my tank is full and growing like mad so I can help the hobby out in NZ with realistically priced stock/frags Nick sparks I cannot guarentee the lowest in NZ as they are quite low now Nick sparks why is it cheap now. whats changed? did you do some homework?? You and steve did say you were going to match the overseas prices. If steve and nick do not do some form of direct selling then the prices to us keen guys will not change, so one of us will start importing.. If hobbyist cant manage a successful reef then how will they every have a chance to keep stock alive during the 3 week quarantine? everyone has overlooked this. One example that makes me laugh is, I have seen red sea prism pro delux skimmers for sale in America for around $85 american and I have seen three for sale here for $895 This is ludacris. High quality equipment isn't seen in shops here because with a mark up like that who is going to pay a couple of grand for a skimmer thats I doubt this is correct. Its really nice that everyone seems to think that i am the only importer, but there are others, althought i am cheapest , Be interesting how they are going to undercut me when my turnover is 2-3 times bigger. Are you going to sell direct only? direct is the only way to get prices down. but then it is a catch 22 as your cant sell enough to keep the doors open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 it is true that you have set expectations of very competitive pricing nick/steve. Reef, the secret like anything is to start small, learn the basics and go from there.... Everyone who assumes that only profit motivated people will apply to start and import corals is mad. MAF only need you to demonstrate an ability to operate the facility financially.... deep pockets satisfy this requirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Are you going to sell direct only? direct is the only way to get prices down. but then it is a catch 22 as your cant sell enough to keep the doors open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Everyone who assumes that only profit motivated people will apply to start and import corals is mad. MAF only need you to demonstrate an ability to operate the facility financially.... deep pockets satisfy this requirement well thats about to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 with respect Alois.... even you cannot change governemnt regulations overnight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 it is true that you have set expectations of very competitive pricing nick/steve. We are waiting for the great pricing to come. not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 2.2 Approval of the Operator The operator is responsible for the operation of a facility and ensuring that mechanisms are in place for resourcing the facility. An operator shall be approved in accordance with section 40 of the Biosecurity Act, 1993. If the Director-General is satisfied: that the applicant is a fit and proper person to be the operator of the facility specified in the application and the applicant is able to comply with the operating standards for that facility, s/he may approve the applicant as the operator of the facility. The operator shall satisfy the supervisor that s/he has the technical and financial resourcing mechanisms in place to maintain that facility. The technical resources shall be provided by a person or persons in authority (identified in section 3.3) with the qualifications, training and experience for ensuring that both the structure of the facility and the operating procedures used in the facility are appropriate for the quarantine of ornamental fish. no reference to any margin levels, personal use, commercial use...... nope MAF are the police, and the police do not make the law.... they police it.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Quote: Well I am back from my visit to the UK and I could not believe the price of Corals, Fish and equipment compared to NZ. NZ is so expensive it is criminal.I am really disallusioned with pricing here. Yellow tangs..NZ$56 Royal Gramma..NZ$42 Clowns..NZ$36 Blue tangs..NZ$42 Basically 1/3 the retail price Corals Acropora(and most SPS)..very colourful large size NZ$120..Med NZ$70..Hollywood size NZ$50 Large Clams NZ $50 Softies NZ$42. The quality and colour of the corals we just donot see in our shops in NZ With regards to Equipment if it is displayed on a web page it will be at RRP which is set by the manufacturer and the retailer is not allowed to state any other price. That is why all the prices for equipment in the UK seems expensive, but the reality is very different when you talk to the shops. there is a skimmer in Hollywood at present for $900+ a nice little hang on model. I could buy them in the UK for NZ$376. The list goes on and one, I am just glad my tank is full and growing like mad so I can help the hobby out in NZ with realistically priced stock/frags Nick sparks Quote: I cannot guarentee the lowest in NZ as they are quite low now Nick sparks why is it cheap now. whats changed? did you do some homework?? You and steve did say you were going to match the overseas prices. Quote: If steve and nick do not do some form of direct selling then the prices to us keen guys will not change, so one of us will start importing.. If hobbyist cant manage a successful reef then how will they every have a chance to keep stock alive during the 3 week quarantine? everyone has overlooked this. Quote: One example that makes me laugh is, I have seen red sea prism pro delux skimmers for sale in America for around $85 american and I have seen three for sale here for $895 This is ludacris. High quality equipment isn't seen in shops here because with a mark up like that who is going to pay a couple of grand for a skimmer thats I doubt this is correct. Its really nice that everyone seems to think that i am the only importer, but there are others, althought i am cheapest , Be interesting how they are going to undercut me when my turnover is 2-3 times bigger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 i agree with one thing reef The LFS will not like wholesalers selling direct to their customers..... Nick/Steve will probably find it difficult to sell direct and wholesale....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 REEF you keep bringing that up but...... arent your doors always open??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Well you seem to know everything, however u can never respond to any questions? does it take more that one line to write it?? Quote: it is true that you have set expectations of very competitive pricing nick/steve. then we get this The list goes on and one, I am just glad my tank is full and growing like mad so I can help the hobby out in NZ with realistically priced stock then this cannot guarentee the lowest in NZ as they are quite low now, are you going to stand and deliver? or is it again just misleading everyone as you do quite well. cant follow your mixed messages, everyone is expecting u to slash pricing by half as u displayed all the american sites with cheap pricing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Alois as I said to Layton earlier nick said this not Steve! cannot guarentee the lowest in NZ as they are quite low now Why are Nick/Steve getting so much 'static' about all this anyway? Why is it such a big concern? Truely, whats the problem? Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Keep it a clean board guys - lets not like this thread disintegrate. This is about the future direction of our hobby.... LFS vs Direct.... Sustainable pricing levels.... The forum is doing what its ment to, encoraging debate, sharing information and the exchange of opinions....... Reef - I find it hard to believe that steve/nick will be able to "make" the LFS change their pricing levels.... unless they go direct or have a "volume" requirement beofre you can open a "trade" account. I am as interested as you to understand their model... the more i think about it the more i come to the conclusion that there are only thre models that can work Perosnal import... not a business and perhaps not limited to personal use but not really running as a business.... it can survive because its hobby based... its sustainable just like any other labour of love *look at all those expensive yachts racing in our harbours..... ) Wholesale only... to LFS only. Wholesale/retail .... like in CHCH... could also be online........ which brings me to my next new topic....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Well both of them have made big demands with pricing, so like all hobbyist we want them to deliver. They have been making big accusations that stores and importers are making a killing, so I am really interested so that I can give it up importing and enjoy the hobby as pricing will be cheap. some one give me $20k and the facility is yours. This is more than most facilities cost however as everyone understands i dont skimp on quality, only the best gear will do for me. I did it for a reason and delivered by slashing pricing over two years. So let’s see as there credibility is really on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Reef you should probably relax.... You understand your margins, have established clients. Do any of us really believe that Jetskisteve/Nick will not make a dollar here or there out of this..... :lol: they have suck $$$ into their import venture and i assume, being business based will want a return.. in fact need one for ird purposes... even a small biz allows lots of great tax benefits thats why i keep bringing up the hobbist importer side of this.... when you dont have to add a margin... its always cheaper :lol: Pies is dead right, DIY is a viable option...... I cannot see anyone getting rich out of this hobby, market is too small and the barriers to entry too low...... this may keep everyone honest though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 But most hobbyist here are complying don’t even realise what it was like3-4 years ago. Things have really changed and pricing is ok most of the time and the variety is huge, Bring it in yourself sounds all nice, but in reality if you don’t have the skills things wont work out to well and can get really expensive. Everyone says pricing is high, then why not talk to the stores instead of making all sorts of claims about them making a killing. Go in and understand why they charge the way they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 OK here it is for the last time, in fear of being shot/banned/flamed/hastled/moved and generally loathed. For me the stores are an un-nessessary step. e.g. I want an Ehiem 1262 pump, all thats important to me is the price, I have made my purchase decision. Now why should I pay 100% more (margins float but this is about right) than wholesale for it? Why can't I go direct (I can, it just is a little more work for me, we when I say 'I' I mean we, if you know what I mean?). Same deal with stock. I want a yellow tang. Thats it, yellow tang please. Now $90 wholesale vs. $199 retail (last time I was in auckland thats how much they were). Thats the bit, for me, thats pisses me off. Now perhapps the 'casual purchases' is where the shops should win. Average Joe Punter wants a yellow tang, sees it, $200 pinga, done, everyone is happy, impulse buy (well everyone cept the yellow tang I suspect). I refuse to get into the shop having 'overheads', for me thats not important. I am willing to concede the fact that they charge what they charge because they have too. I don't like it, but hey its there business to do with what they like. But what about me? All I want is the stuff I want. I don't perceve any value from the store, just get me a fish/coral/additive/pump for the most reasonable price, and by that I mean wholesale (or maybee a little more cause I am buying less, and I can respect the logic behind looking after your bigger customers). Am I making sense? Piemania Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 shoot from the hip pies $4000 down so far here Tank and stand 1k lights 700 rock / ro/di / bits 1.5k fish from ivan 1k hey.. what about the rest of the stuf :roll: skimmer 1k so how about this shed out the back 3k council approvals 1k pumps/skimmer tanks etc 2k its small and personal remember maf approval 1-2k $10 profit per coral... have to sell 7-800 corals... over next 10 years of my hobby about 1.5 corals per week, one shipment per year would break even in the longer term........... duh even a bank manager can see the numbers stack up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 And on the first shipment you will get all the pieces you want. not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 so be it, flick on the ones you do not want...... even at cost if necessary trademe probably work............ at last this thread is talking about a way to change the prices we pay , rather then just bitching about them....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reef Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 We could go on and on, however my goal is to make it cheap as possable by moving numbers so everyone wins, win/win. It has worked so far and will only get better if i can do more numbers, Hopefully next week i can do over 800 plus items which should see another cut in prices, especially if the US dollar holds out. Pointless getting in 800 pieces and having 400 in the tanks. no one wins . stuff due out on saturday should be well priced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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