Peter McLeod Posted October 15, 2004 Report Share Posted October 15, 2004 Since this is what I'm mainly interested in I thought I would start a topic to see if there was anyone who wants some help ore advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted October 16, 2004 Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 Do you know how many spawns it takes to get from hybreds to purebreds (in practicality not theorey) I ask because I had a whole lot of guppie babies and some are bringing out some nice colours I was thinking of taking all of these out seperating them and trying to pull out the nice colours and get purebreds P.S. I am not sure if this is as easy as it sounds it has been about 10 years since I learnt about genetics at 4th fourm level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McLeod Posted October 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2004 (1) How much variation of colour and tailshape do you have. (2) are all the fish related (3) What do the parents look like comared to young (4) what do the females show colour wise, are they clear (5) can you supply a picture or 2 of the fish. Don't think guppies will follow the Mandelian theory completely.You could fix a strain in 3-4 generations or it could take 10. Fixing a strain can take a while depending on what you have to work with. A basic idea is that the females pass on shape and males the colour.If you have a few clear body females they are what you can call neutral, and are much more likely to carry the colour of the male mated with them.The female performs an important task also if you want Delta tail shape, another words choosing the right female with a good triangular shape to the tail is just as important as choosing the right male. It really isn't that difficult.As long as you have a bit of knowledge on what genes are dominant and rescessive the only other thing you need is tankspace and patience.Make sure you separate females as early as possible from the young males until you decide which ones are going to be your choice of breeders.Try to use only one male as often as possible to his sisters daughters and grand daughters at least until you have stabalised your new strain to some degree.On my strains I use at least 2 males in case one is infertile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interfecus Posted October 17, 2004 Report Share Posted October 17, 2004 A basic idea is that the females pass on shape and males the colour. I hope you just said that as a simplification. The reason for relying on this would be because of relative clarity of these features in different sexes. Genetically an equal contribution for all traits must come from both parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninBoxers Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 Greetings Peter! Thanks so much for your offer to help some of us with this topic! :-) I have done a lot of reading online, and some of the strains that really appeal to me are albino. I see over and over that albinos are hard to breed but no one is very specific about why. Is it low fertility? High deformity rate? Or do they mean its difficult to maintain quality stock? Are they difficult compared to other guppies, or generally difficult? Thanks!!! Helene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McLeod Posted October 18, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 I will get hold of some photo's of my males verses females to explain what I mean by shape.Yes it is more of a simplification but in a roundabout way is true.It is an X chromosome dominant gene that enables the males to develope large Delta and flagtail.Without this gene male guppies would be sword or doublesword.The gene fills in the gap. In saying that it would be silly to totally forget the female as to colour and the male for shape.But it is much easier to start a new strain if the female is what I call neutral and shows little or no colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 18, 2004 Report Share Posted October 18, 2004 I question I have is how big are guppies naturally. I see a lot in the shops which look to be very small. Can a small strain be breed bigger? Thanks Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McLeod Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Roninboxers I haven't seen albino's in NZ.I would like to.They aparently can be a bit tricky.It would require a bit more tankspace to run a strain like this but would be worth it. As one idea Cross a red albino male into a grey body normal strain female.All offspring will be grey body but will carry the albino gene.By crossing the offspring females back to the orrigional male(prefferable) you will get approximately 50% albino.If you can cross one of the better male offspring back to the mother.As long as the grey body strain you used to start your sister strain was reasonably consistant you should be able to use this new strain for back crossing every few generations. If you no longer had the orrigional male to cross back to his daughters you will need to cross siblings but with this you will only get 25% albino's. This is a vey similar way to what I run my gold body H/B yellows which is also recesive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninBoxers Posted October 19, 2004 Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Hi Peter! I had an Albino snakeskin male about 10 years ago. I never bred him though as he was small and unimpressive. Also the red eyes are quite something to get used to! I would like to bring in an albino strain but just want to be sure I'd be able to breed them first. I find it hard to imagine they'd really be THAT hard. Have you seen any nice yellows in NZ? Or perhaps sunset? I think the sunset is a neat idea but a lot of the photos I've seen of them aren't too exciting. Thanks! :-) Helene BTW as soon as I make some Albino babies you'd be welcome to have some. If we spread them around it might make for a little diversity and a backup strain :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McLeod Posted October 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2004 Iduncan In the wild guppies are much different to look at than the ones available in petshops. Males are about 2.5cm and the female around 4cm. By giving these fish good food and living conditions it should be possible over time to make them larger.Tail and colour would be a different story.Depends on if you are talking true wild guppies or ones that have reverted back to wild type over time. We have a few wild populations of guppies around Rotorua (not Mosquito fish) that can be mistaken for wild guppies, and I have often wondered if it would be worth trying to use the wild very clear tailed guppy females to fix strains easier.I would have to try a very controled experiment perhaps over summer so I can keep them outside away from my fishroom and other strains.Would take a few generations to see if it would work out alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hi there Peter, Just wondering if you can identify my guppy type on this one: cheers: One and a bit of males This is just one of my guppy tank, couple of males in view tho This one is for Livebearer_Breeder, these are the females i got from you as juveniles Shae: thanks guys, I realise most of these should of gone in "Post some Pics of your Livebeares, but wanted to see if someone could tell me the type of guppy I have. Cheers B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter McLeod Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Looks like a bit of a mix there.You have gold body with grey.Some of the females show colour only on the edge of the caudal sugesting perhaps they carry double sword genes.Some of the males look as if they are going more back to a wild type hence the black dot midway down the body.They also look like they may have had snakeskin mixed in at some stage with the small high peak on the dorsal.It is hard to find snakeskins with good long dorsals.Some of the females show colour and others don't show much at all. Are the fish from the same batch of fry.I can see a couple of males in the photo's could become an interesting strain if you had some related females to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 the females are looking good steve, i hope you didnt mix my strain with the ones in that othere tank that look half wild and alot smaller than mine? cause you'll end up losing the size and colour of my strain in with the othere guppys you have obtained! the females still have not got full colour in there tail which is interesting? i would say rather than haveing sword genes as peter said they have not queit produced the full colour in there tails, as my fry do the same and then get the full coloured tail! i am wondering where you have the firetails? which are the males of my strain?? Cheers Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 he's in the third pic,on the right hand side with the circle on the base of his tail, he is more blue than the others. The othe strain is predominantly salmon based in colour. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 thats not one of my males steve! its not evena male, i would almost say thats one of my marigold platy! cuz that what mine look like! if my dad finds the charger for his digital camera i will take a pic of my babies and show you! Cheers Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 i c the blue/yellow snakeskin i gave you has developed a top sword! looks good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Shae, The guppies you gave me I have seperated the better lookin females which are the ones in the last two pics and the orange fish in with the guppies are swordtails male and female, they are in a temporary home at the mo. Peter, majority of the males and females are from the same line so would say that there are some from the same batch of fry, but I inherited these off another guy and they were all together when I got them, from now on tho the fry will be seperated out to see what I get. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 did you not get any males form the batch? if not i will give u one once there ready! Cheers Shae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 there are two males, one is in the second photo with all the guppies and sword tails as I said in the las tmessage he is towards the top in the right hand corner, he is blue and yellow, the other is gold in colour and is starting to develop red/yellow colouring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 I think you mean the 2nd pic B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucid Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 yes sorry all, I did mean the 2nd pic, the golden one in the third pic shae is a golden female that came from your batch as well :lol: B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livebearer_breeder Posted October 29, 2004 Report Share Posted October 29, 2004 okey, no worries, it seems that yours have growin a bit faster than mine? how big are they, the ones i gave you? Shae 250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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