whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hooray! I finally ordered some PMDD form Hans and I'm hoping my hungry hungry amazon swords will love it! :bounce: Here's what Hans' instructions say: For every 100g of PMDD you will need to add 500ml of water. I suggest you only mix up only enough for 2-4 weeks supply. Keep the PPMD out of the light in a dry place. I suggest using 2 drops for every 40L of water. Over dosing can cause problems, less is more I'm assuming that's 2 drops per 40L each day? My tank is only 200-ish litres so I will be adding 10 drops of PMDD solution each day. But how much is 10 drops? :-? I don't have a medicine-dropper type thing, just an old Stress Coat bottle with a screw-top lid. The lid has 1ml, 5 ml and 10ml measures on it. I also don't have a sensitive scale for weighing out small quantities of the powder, so there will be a lot of guess-work involved. So, for example, if I want to make up 100ml of PMDD solution I will need to measure 20 grams of powder. Can anybody tell me what 20 grams would be in quantities that I can measure with kitchen measuring spoons? i.e. translate grams of PMDD powder into mls for measuring spoon purposes? *head explodes from too much thinking* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 5drops = 1 mL. personally I used a lot of PMDD. more like 10 - 15 mL about 4-5 times a week, but then again I had to experiment and i fully realised the consequences of adding all those nitrogenous compounds into the tank. luckily there were no adverse effects in my tank, and no algae blooms - but BEWARE algae blooms are one of the most common side effects of adding it to a tank. what I did was use the silver coloured stress coat bottle (dark as it is opaque) and mixed all of my mix in there. compound 2 was mixed separately in another container, and that way i had a more concentrated soln. and could regulate how much of what was going onto the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsonMassif Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I thought 20 drops = 1mL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I have the same question, thanks for asking it Whetu. I'm going to Briscoes this weekend to see if they have any digital scales sensitive enough for the job. Are all drops the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsonMassif Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 No Sam it depends on the viscosity of the liquid. But something which is almost all water is pretty close enough AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 no all drops are not the same. wait as i recalculate. .... ...... ............ ................. lets assume 1 drop = 50uL (micro litres) = [0.05mL] thus 1mL = 1/.05 = 20 drops. so yes vinson 1mL = 20 drops. :lol: I lied before, or used a bigger drop. but that depends on the size of drop, metric drops are 50uL and some others can range from 50uL to 99uL. important thing to remember is not the size of the drop, but more importantly the concentration of the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 ... important thing to remember is not the size of the drop, but more importantly the concentration of the solution. Ok then... keeping that in mind, how do i measure the powder to get the right concentraion in my solution? Is 20g a tablespoon? Or two? Or three? :-? My kitchen scales certainly won't weigh out 20 grams accurately. I might have to wait until SamH gets some scales then I'll go visiting with my PMDD and put it in 20g baggies. Sam are your neighbours the suspicious sorts? :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 well if sam's school has a chem department, im sure they wont mind him weighing out the right amount. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 well if sam's school has a chem department, im sure they wont mind him weighing out the right amount. :lol: Ok so now you want me to hang around Sam's school with bags of white powder?! I'll just say to the nice police officer, "this guy named phoenix off the internet told me to do it..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 In very non technical terms... I use two teaspoons to make up 50mls in a bottle with a nozzle that I got from the plastics shop - makes putting drops into the tank easier! I did weigh the first lot on a set of digital scales, and 2 tsp is about 10 grams. It may not be ultra precise, but I don't put the same amount of drops in the tank each day anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 yeah that'll go down well! hahahaha :lol: alternatively, just mix the chems... don't stress about volumes, concentrations, amounts in moles etc etc... and in general d0n't complicate things. just add a little bit at a time and slowly increase the dose rate until you are happy with the results or your plants keep sustaining normal growth 8) 8) :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Aha! Thanks Zev! So 2 tsp = about 10 mls = about 10 grams. So your ratio of 2 tsp of powder to 50ml of water is about right, and I would need to dose 10 drops a day (0.5ml) in my 200 litre tank. Or I could put 1 tsp powder in 50ml water and dose 1ml/day (the smallest amount I can measure using my StressCoat lid). That way the solution will only last me 50 days! Wow, that's concentrated stuff! Anyway, as implied by phoenix, the concentration doesn't matter too much as long as I use the same proportions each time. I can start off with 1ml/day and see how it goes, then increase the dose later if I want to. I will write my formula on the bottle so I remember how to make it the same way next time. Thanks everyone! :bounce: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I must be well over dosing then. I have been using 5 - 10mls per day on 250ltr tank. Also taking into account that the 250ltr will probably only have 180ish in it after taking out the 3cm not quite full and gravel, rocks and wood. I better reduce the amount I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I always write on the containers how much to dose for the tank sizes I have - saves me having to work it out every time I want to put some in the tank, especially if I haven't used a particular type of ferts for a while. I have scribbles all over my bottles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Maybe I don't need to go to Briscoes then? But it sounds like I'll have to hunt down some opaque bottles... I don't even think I'd be allowed to take suspicious white powder to school let alone a stranger! I'm really keen to start dosing, I'm running 4x 18w T8's with no CO2 or ferts and it's starting to show. Should I remove the Platy before I start experimenting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Maybe I don't need to go to Briscoes then? But it sounds like I'll have to hunt down some opaque bottles... I don't even think I'd be allowed to take suspicious white powder to school let alone a stranger! I'm really keen to start dosing, I'm running 4x 18w T8's with no CO2 or ferts and it's starting to show. Should I remove the Platy before I start experimenting? Yeah I reckon don't go to briscoes for the scales. Looks like Zev has already done the hard work on our behalf. As for opaque bottles, I'm sure someone on here must have a spare bottle. I actually have an empty 250ml Leaf Zone bottle sitting right here by my computer but you're in Manukau so that's not much use to you is it?! You shouldn't need to remove the platy if you start off with nice low doses. Even if you get an algae bloom the platy will probably just think "hmm, it's foggy this morning!" but have no ill effects! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamH Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I was thinking more if I slipped and dropped the whole bag in? Then the Platy might think, "Hmmm, it sure is toxic in here". :lol: I'm going to Supa Centre tomorrow so I'll go into plastic box and see if they have anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I must be well over dosing then. I have been using 5 - 10mls per day on 250ltr tank. Also taking into account that the 250ltr will probably only have 180ish in it after taking out the 3cm not quite full and gravel, rocks and wood. I better reduce the amount I use. But Bilbo, if your plants are growing well and you don't have an algae bloom, then surely you must be dosing the right amount for your tank? I mean, the original advice of a couple of drops a day doesn't ytake into account how many plants you have in there, or what kind of hungry, fast-growing plants they are, or how often you do water changes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navarre Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Hi There, a medicinal drop is 20 gtts (or drops) per ml. you could go to a pharmacy or a gun smith or someone who reloads or maybe even a hydroponics shop and ask them to weigh your 20 grams of powder into a container and then mark the container. The next time youmake your brew you just fill the container to the mark. I dont think under dosing is an issue as varied doses are what would happen in some of the streams these plants can come from. It is regular OVER dosing that is an issue as we use a closed system to keep our plants in. I wouldnt think you would need to remove your platy sam as the idea is to balance nutrients not put them in in such a way as top be harmfull but it is trial and error. Hans has said less is more. thinking about this it would make sense to me to way UNDER dose and build the levels up. But as I said it is all trial and error and what works for one may not work for all. Navarre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 I always write on the containers how much to dose for the tank sizes I have - saves me having to work it out every time I want to put some in the tank, especially if I haven't used a particular type of ferts for a while. I have scribbles all over my bottles! I do the same. My maths brain isn't good enough to keep mentally recalculating the doses, especially when the bottle says something like "add 5 ml per 10 US gallons (38 litres)..." :roll: :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted August 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks Navarre. I think you're right that under-dosing is better. When I started adding 'Plant Gro" liquid to my tank I would get green water every time - most frustrating! I would rather add less and build it up, as you suggest. On the other hand, I don't think I will carry my white powder to a gun shop, a hydroponics shop then Sam's school... :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zev Posted August 6, 2009 Report Share Posted August 6, 2009 Awww Whetu, aren't you going to take your PMDD to Switched on Gardner, then? The dosage would also depend if you are adding Co2 to your tank as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morcs Posted September 21, 2009 Report Share Posted September 21, 2009 So with the whole PMDD thing, its a trace element fert, similar to standard flourish? Im thinking on a 24L tank, flourish is still ok value so not worth going down the PMDD route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaNs Posted September 25, 2009 Report Share Posted September 25, 2009 So with the whole PMDD thing, its a trace element fert, similar to standard flourish? Im thinking on a 24L tank, flourish is still ok value so not worth going down the PMDD route? PMDD is still cheaper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Sorry for coming to this a bit late :oops: ....in medicine we use intravenous fluid giving sets that range from 10 drops/ml to 60 drops/ml - that is a significant difference (due to the size of the dropper's aperature). Just something to keep in mind ...would be nice to know the number of mililitres per dose and then a syringe could be used for accuracy. :roll: HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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