fishguy Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 I can’t understand why jetskisteve/nicks are saying corals/fish are so expensive when at the reef club meeting they were selling coral for around $60. This does not seem to be much better priced than the retail shops who have to pay staff, gst & tax etc. Even the new aqua medic skimmers and T5 lighting that I looked at was not that much cheaper. Selling in the backyard is always going to be cheaper.. “Common guys you are not doing it for freeâ€. So don’t expect aquarium stores to do it for nothing, they do have to make a living and provide enough income to keep the business going in the long run. I have seen Alois quarantine facility, and to be honest I don’t know how he does it. He has a full time job and then has to spend about 3-4 hours a day looking after the tanks. Other importers have staff to pay and can’ drop pricing if it is going to be sustainable. Bad mouthing the shops and importers does not do the hobby any good especially if you don’t have any experience in the business. Even if jetskisteve/nicks sell to the shops because they are so cheap do you think the shops will buy everything from them ? I don’t think so as they have long loyal relationship with most suppliers and they are looking for long term supply not the short term and unsustainably supply that any one else has to offer. As far as I am concerned the NZMAS marine club is more of a backyard shop to help Steve/nick in selling coral/fish so that they can undermine the shops. A club is for learning and sharing ideas, not to sell and make profit for self gain. when will shops have your shipment Steve? Which shop do you think will stock jetskisteve/nicks products?? These guys have made very slanderous comments about shops and importers , so No one in this country is going to buy from them. When was the last time Jetskisteve/nicks purchased a coral/fish from a shop to support them?? Probably never. I have never seen them in the shop when the coral arrive as I always try to get there so I can get the best pieces before they go. If they are so concerned about pricing why don’t they open a plumbing shop and undersell Mitre 10 etc. as plumbing is so expensive , It only cost about 10-20 cents to make a bend but sell for $4-$5 a item. Why don’t they sell it for $1.?? Maybe they have expenses like rent, wages etc. but the question is how low the prices might get before even you start to say they are TOO low... Prices won’t go much lower as there is an economic cost to run a business. If a shop buys a coral for $15, do you think it is going to cost $30 retail ? I don’t think so as the mark up will be 150% instead of the 100% because shops have expenses to cover and have to meet a certain gross margin to make it worth there while to run a business. Not all coral is going to be sold on day 1 as it takes time to sell it all. No matter what the prices are. Prices might go down in the short term however will go up as they are not sustainable. Pricing in NZ is on par with the rest of the world, It is only seems expensive as jetskisteve/nicks always pick out the lower prices to compare ours with the rest of the world. I remember a shop in Auckland named Aquazoo. it had the cheapest marine prices, however were are they now.?? and were are all the old importers? not around because they could not make any money due to the low prices. food for thought This is my first post and probably my last as I can’t be bothered with these small minded individuals who think they are always hard done by. I think certain individuals need to reflect on there intentions before trying to destroy the hobby to fulfil there selfish short term needs. That’s my two cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Some debate is healthy and its obviously an important enough subject to generate such emotion in the people posting. Locking or removing the thread won't solve the problem, just delay it rearing its head in other forums/threads. Its unfair to have a thread removed just because you don't like the subject being discussed. Pies Of course you can disagree but keep it within the rules and keep it nice... The rules for the site clearly state no bad language, no slander and no personal insults. All three of these rules have been broken in recent posts and two of them in this thread already. Statements about retail prices are slanderous so stop it now and don't do it again! No more bad language and no attacking each other with insults. As Bill stated, we haven't banned anyone, - yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 This is my first post and probably my last dont be like that, we need more people in here. the more people in here the more variety we will be able to get because everyone knows someone whos not on this site but has something someone else wants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted October 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 brian reread that again, sound familiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 what is so blatantly obvious here is that this whole discussion is about money! those with the loudest voices seem to be the ones either making or spending the most! those who spend a lot have an option http://www.maf.govt.nz/biosecurity/border/transitional-facilities/animals/154-02-06.htm just do it yourself....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 fishguy, this is NOT a personal insult, slander or whatever else appears to be insulting. my question to you is (no sarcasm involved, it's a serious question) when last did you buy a coral from a retail store? You say corals at Jetskisteve/nicks were $60. That is half the typical price I have ever seen a coral go for in retail store. I also believe the $60 you have "quoted" is a fair price - and smaller frags even went for less than half that. I dont expect retail stores to drop to this level, theres not enough money in it for them but sub-$100 prices should be the norm, not $120 - $160. this market NEEDS competition otherwise the retail stores will control the price. take a serious look at product at LFS and think about what you're paying for, IMO it IS extremely expensive. RnB - thats exactly why Steve and Nick are doing what they're doing - and it IS about money. Why do you think there aren't more people in the marine hobby? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Warren Wrote: Statements about retail prices are slanderous so stop it now and don't do it again! Warren: it is slanderous to discuss retail prices? Phew! Things are getting pretty heated. I still struggle to see what the problem is, why is there much oposition to the Nick/Steve venture? If you don't support there actions then simply inforce your right as a consumer and don't buy anything from them, just continue to support your existing suppliers. Those of us who have met Nick & Steve know they are pretty nice guys, but it seems that by challenging Reef they have become loathed. It seems to be the same with Brendon (ZEOVITNZ), poor Brendon can't even post in this forum without being attacked. Which is insane, because he is such a nice, friendly and helpful guy. But because he and Reef don't get along he seems to get slated. A real shame in my opnion. Fishguy - Your first post on this fourm and you start of by calling me small minded. I hope you are good for your word and it is your last post. I have been fortunate enough to meet NickS, JetSkiSteve & Reef on dozens on ocasions, infact we have met together several times when I have been up in Auckland. I have been invited into all of their homes, met there familys, stayed at there homes and enjoyed every visit i've had. Its a real shame from my perspective, as now I feel like if I talk with Steve it will put me out of favor with Reef, or vice versa. Puts people in awkward positions (how I feel anyway). So come on guys, how about putting it all rest, agree to disagree and move on (this goes for EVERYONE). After all this is all about FISH, who would have thought that FISH could cause so much animosity. We even have the fish police banning our threads. The wheels are in motion, nothing said here is going to change anything, so we may as well just kick back and see what happens. Good luck to Nick & Steve, keep up the good work Reef. Piemoderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 :lol: :lol: :lol: legendary! it appears to me moderators are playing mum and dad here. i agree from the moderators in that personal insults are wrong and should be banned, however banning personal opinions is a different story. it is just that, an opinion,... IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 Just read the thread as a newish guy on the board, and to be honest was not impressed with some of the maturity level displayed. Argueing the toss over price levels also seems endless. In the end it is simple economics. IF huge profits are being made, more punters will be attracted to the business and competition & prices will come down. New ways of selling such as "garage" or "net" may also have a niche, but there is always going to be a place for a LFS. But I think this cycle has already been happening. There have as previously mentioned been other market participants who have folded, and LFS that have closed the marine department. Time will tell how the new ventures go, and I wish them the best. But endless bickering here only turns one time friends into enemies, and puts on permanent record the childishness of some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 about the club thing I want to belong to a fish club to swap frags and ideas. I really don't want to sell many of my frags as would rather swap/give away, but thats a personal thing. I sincerely hope the club meetings do not solely become a sales channel for nick/steve. I am happy for them to offer 'special' deals to club members as some businesses do, but feel that this should not be exclusive. I would like to see Alois involved in the club, he has huge experience and i think it would be a shame not to tap this - as long as reef agree's. and wants to participate. Would love for him to present on the breeding bof baggies I am fascinated by his results and hope that iduncan can also help slowly propergate these great fish around our hobby. I do not want Alois to be using the club as a sales channel either, the club thing is not about getting lower prices, its about sharing info, seeing each others tanks etc I want to belong to a club to share info on where we can get great deals, like 200L food grade bins for $30 (barrys bins by the way). but feel if too many of the members are retailers that all i will ever get offered is there latest great import, not truely open info about where to source stuff from. I want to belong to a club to participate in group purchases that benefit the members. Lets get 10 of us together and get a great deal on refractometers for example. maybe we could hold reef gear "garage sales" at nicks/steves every so often and we could hold regular evening meetings where there was to be no selling, or swapping, rather it be presentation info sharing based??? just me thoughts, everyone seems resonable as pies has said, I have found everyone in this hobby a worthy source of info, strong opinions are held ! but thats like any sport/ hobby. I really listern to Alois, he has more experience in this than me, he has often had personal experience with different pieces of gear etc...... Maybe a night meeting with a disucssuon of sulphur denitraters, i hear chong chow sorry sp? is using one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 A club should be totally independent of commercial interests. That is not what it is for, or what it should be used for. Layton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 One of the main reasons I want to belong to a club is to have access to better prices of equipment and stock. Its not the only reason, but its an important one to me. For marines, access to more sources of Frags and cheap corals and fish appeals. For my freshwater I have sourced much equipment and stock from members and wholesalers/breeders at much better prices than retail. When the price is lower, it gives me the option to buy more or buy better quality. I didn't see anyone complaing about the price they paid for there TUNZE STREAMS, no one was begging to pay NZ retail on those, we were greatfull to get them for such a reasonable price. Would you have even brought them at store prices? I know I wouldn't (or couldn;t). This part of the community is a very important part of it for me. I don't care where the stuff comes from, wholesaler, importer, garage breeders, broken down tanks, as long as the price is fair and the condition is acceptable (to me) then count me in. To be fair to Nick and Steve they have been helping people out long before they started this new venture (which as far as I am aware hasn't even started yet?). As I have said before Steve has helped me out a great deal, and there has been nothing in it for him, who better to be helping run a club? I havn't seen many other people sticking up there hand offering to do it, but I am sure they would be greatful for the help. They obviously feel there is a need for what they are going to offer, and they have acted on it. Anyone who has gone into a shop and seen the prices for some of the stock and equipment knows exactly what I mean. You see that yellow tang for $199 and know ther must be a better way to get it. Hopefully very soon there will be. Those with wholesale accounts know what I mean. I have been selling a few frags from my own tank latley (I have a lot of Acro frags $25ea for anyone who wants to come and pick them up). From a club perspective I think that what I am doing is helping not hurting. Access to cheaper stock and equipment will help more people try the hobby and increase demand for the stock anyway (right?). I promise that a $100 at my house will get you more than it does at any store. Go the clubs, go the importers, go the fraggers. As far as I am concerened, everyone should be welcome, and as far as the Wellington 'club' is concerned, you are. Pies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted October 13, 2004 Report Share Posted October 13, 2004 i agree with everyone the fact is that everyone involved here is still a hobbiest when it comes down to it, sure reef might make some money out of it but who cares, sure steve and nicks might make some money out of it but who cares. i have no problems paying for stuff that i want, and someone has to sell it speaking of acro frags its a bit far for me pies but anyone in auckland have one or two for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 Hey to make this very clear, I have no issue with Nick / Steve / Alois, I just think that in Auckland , at the moment, feelings are VERY HIGH. I have had a lot more to do with some of these names then others, i know they have all helped a lot of people. Its just that having a "presentation only" night with no commercial transactions allowed, may be a way to bring everyone together... in order for us not to start talking about the blo*%4#@dy costs of everything, i think a few presentations could be a way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted October 14, 2004 Report Share Posted October 14, 2004 I fly WGTN to AKL every thursday evening, I am happy to take a frag pack with me 8) frags kindly accepted as courrier fees 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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