agecage Posted May 16, 2009 Report Share Posted May 16, 2009 Just breed my Jack dempseys. Im busy growing out an electric blue. But in the mean time my greens are breeding away. They hadnt breed from some time so i changed the tank around and them, there are a whole lot again. here are some pics. Really hard 2 see and take photos of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 What are you going to do with the fry, keep the blues and cull the rest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agecage Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 What are you going to do with the fry, keep the blues and cull the rest? I doubt i'll get any blues. Its just my pair of greens breeding. Still growing my electric so i can breed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Two greens crossed together should produce about 1/4 blue AFAIK, the rest are a random mix and should probably be culled to reduce the chances of them "polluting" the true JD bloodlines by unscrupulous or clueless breeders. IMO the greens should only be bred to produce blues, they should be treated like hybrids even though they technically aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agecage Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Two greens crossed together should produce about 1/4 blue AFAIK, the rest are a random mix and should probably be culled to reduce the chances of them "polluting" the true JD bloodlines by unscrupulous or clueless breeders. IMO the greens should only be bred to produce blues, they should be treated like hybrids even though they technically aren't. Im sorry but i dont understand your logic. This could happen in the wild. Breeders are just lifting the chances by understanding the process betta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firenzenz Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 David is describing the results of breeding Blue/greens. Blue mated with regular (green) equals Blue/Green. Blue mated with Blue/Green should produce fry where 50% are blue. Blue/green with Blue/green should produce 25% Blues although that seems harder to achieve in actuality then the theory. What David is suggesting is that any Blue/Greens not kept for the purposes of breeding Blues should be culled and not sold as Greens to protect the integrity of the Regular Dempsey gene pool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Thanks Andrew. This could happen in the wild. Could it? I'm not familiar with the origins of the blue morph. It may well occur in habitat, but if they mate with another blue they will not produce viable offspring, and their brighter colour and more more docile nature help stack the odds against it. While the blue morph may occasionally pop up in habitat I'd guess its more of a freak occurrence, and still believe they shouldn't be crossed and mixed. Perhaps someone more clued up on the origins of the ebjd could fill me in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agecage Posted May 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 Im sorry but i don't understand your logic. If it can happen in a aquarium with out any human intervention except that they have no fish to prey on them. Why couldn't it happen in the wild. Its just a gene. The blue jd isnt a dominant gene. Its the same with albinos, i know they are breed easier and more clearer in the aquarium. But they do happen in the wild. If the gene is there it gets there in some way. If u breed 2 blues u get a normal. Maybe u need 2 realize that there are 3 colorations to the JDs. Unless the blue has been produced in the lab with hormones or some other things, then i understand ur logic but other wise i think your just being silly. If u breed a green with a normal u get normals. The normal coloration is a dominant gene. Same if u breed 2 blues, there of spring is normal. All these things are in there genes, in my opinion our fish in the aquarium don't have any threat to the native population. So i don't see why this breeding can cause and problems. I sure dont know how to gm fish. And i thing gm fish is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted May 17, 2009 Report Share Posted May 17, 2009 i thought the jury was still out on the origin of the blues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 Im sorry but i don't understand your logic. If it can happen in a aquarium with out any human intervention except that they have no fish to prey on them. Why couldn't it happen in the wild. Because "the wild" often covers a large area with different populations separated by geographic barriers, and also has other factors like natural selection, which would mean a bright blue fish that is smaller and less aggressive than the usual is a lot less likely to breed. Many species of central american cichlid will readily interbreed in the aquarium, and despite them sharing a common habitat they do not do it in the wild. Could happen? Possibly. Likely to happen? No. Its the same with albinos, i know they are breed easier and more clearer in the aquarium. But they do happen in the wild. Yes, and in the wild they are probably nailed by a larger predatory fish before getting a chance to breed, and would pop up very infrequently. And in the hobby is it good practice to cross an albino oscar with a regular tiger oscar? If the gene is there it gets there in some way. If u breed 2 blues u get a normal. Maybe u need 2 realize that there are 3 colorations to the JDs. AFAIK if you breed two blues you don't get anything, which is why a blue needs to be crossed with a "normal" to produce a blue-green which carries the blue gene but doesn't fully exhibit it (but does differ in appearance from a "normal") which can then be crossed back to a blue to produce mostly blue fry (what do the others look like? Any idea of the ratios anyone?). I think you'll find if you look at different populations of R. octofasciatum you will find they vary in colour from location to location (maybe only slightly, or maybe significantly), in the same way that africans, chinese and europeans vary in appearance while still remaining part of the same species. You say there are three colourations, I'm saying if you mix them up and cross-breed them how do you keep it at only three? We know that two blue-greens crossed together produce varying offspring, ranging from very blue to who-knows-what, so what do you call the rest? Unless the blue has been produced in the lab with hormones or some other things, then i understand ur logic but other wise i think your just being silly. Well you're entitled to your own opinion and I won't take offence at being called silly so long as you don't mind me saying that yours is a very closed-minded and uneducated opinion. Go ask some of the african cichlid nuts about crossing different colour strains of the same species and see what kind of response you get... If u breed a green with a normal u get normals. The normal coloration is a dominant gene. Same if u breed 2 blues, there of spring is normal. I'm not really sure what you're saying here, but I hope you realise its a bit more complicated than a highschool biology punnet square. The "normal gene" is obviously not totally dominant, otherwise when you cross a blue with a "normal" you wouldn't get a blue-green that differs in appearance from a "normal". I'm not really sure what you're getting at, as AFAIK "greens" are "normals" so obviously crossing the two would produce more "normals". You're certainly over-simplifying it though, if you cross a "normal" with anything but a "normal" then you no longer have a pure "normal", despite how similar they may look, and there lies my problem; if people start mixing them up, cross breeding them, in a few generations [of fish] then the market will be flooded with mutts that can't really be distinguished as one or the other, and will simply have to be known as "jack dempseys". If you don't believe how unscrupulous breeding can cause confusion in the hobby, look at the mess surrounding the Red Devil/Midas complex, as I ranted about here. Just my 2c... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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