Green Spotted Puffer Thread

[lmsmith]

Ok, so they're not really rare, but they are pretty unusual.

This is my thread about my baby puffs; where they live in the wild, how to make them happy in an aquarium, and other info I know about them. The information (especailly about feeding) is pretty general to all puffers.

Here are my puffs:

This is little puff:

This is big puff:

I bought them at the same time from the same place, they were both about 1.5cm long (excluding tail). They're now about 6cm long. This is pretty small for a shop bought GSP; they're usually available from about 3cm and larger here. I bought them after doing about a years research on how to best raise them.

General Stats

Size: up to 15cm, very round like a tennis ball.

Temp: 25 - 28deg

Tank size: 100L per puff

Temperament: completely dependent on the individual fish. They're very intelligent and need constant stimulation. They tend to be more aggressive as they get older.

Salinity: 1.010 - 1.025

Background

GSPs live in asia, Thailand, Shi Lanka, and India most commonly. They are found in fresh, brackish and full marine waters, but most commonly in brackish water. The general consensus is that GSPs spawn in brackish water (1.005 - 1.010SG) on the substrate (fine sand) then are moved by the parents to fresh water. They then move to more brackish water as they grow, then as adults to full marine conditions. However, not very much is known about them; and they have been confirmed to have spawned in the aquarium. In Feb 2009, the University of Florida successfully artificially inseminated and hatched GSP fry for the first time with a very high success rate. There are also reports that they are bred in huge industrial hatcheries in Malaysia, but this hasn't been confirmed, and there is no way to know if it is natural spawning or with use of hormones or other means.

Internal Parasites

Because they are not readily bred in captivity; virtually all available are wild caught. This is the same as many other puffers (except dwarf puffers, which are commonly bread in home tanks). This means that most of them have internal parasites when they are purchased. The best way to worm them is with dontral, a dog worming tablet. Crush up a tablet, dissolve it in water and inject it into their food. Feed the injected food for 3 -4 days. Do a water change after 12 - 24 hrs, then again in 3 days, and another 3 days after that.

Keeping in an aquarium

Because there is not that much known about where they live and when the move between different salinities, you can never be sure what to keep them in in an aquarium. Most fish shops sell them as fresh water puffs, but the general consensus is that they should be kept in BW (1.005 - 1.015) until they are 2 inches, then at increased salinity up to full marine as they get bigger. They need lots of space (100L per fish) as they're aggressive, and tend to get bored easily. They can't cope with strong flow as they only have tiny fins. They need lots of hidey holes as they like to sleep curled up in confined spaces. They also benefit from having the things in their tank moved around so they don't get bored. I also have a ping pong ball (with holes in it so it sinks) in their tank so they can push it around and play with it.

GSPs are slow growing, taking anywhere from 4 - 8 years to reach their full size of 15cm. They cannot be sexed as they are monomorphic.

Food

Puffers teeth continually grow, so they need crunchy food to keep them ground down. If they get too long, it can prevent the puffer from eating and they can starve to death.

Good foods to feed them:

Snails daily (not Malaysian trumpet snails as their shells are very hard and can break the puffs teeth). Choose ones the same size as their eye, because they tend to just suck the snail out of the shell in larger ones.

Live or frozen crabs

Shrimp (either fresh, live or buy them fresh or frozen from the supermarket. Raw is best, don't buy them if they're flavoured or marinated)

Mussels (frozen or in the shells)

Octopus

Slaters

Veges if they'll eat them.

Make sure they're defrosted or it can break their teeth and give them sore tummies. Avoid freeze dried food because they can swell up in their tummies and kill them.

Keep an eye on what they're eating, and be careful not to overfeed them. Puffers don't have ribs, so they can (and have) eat so much that they explode and die. Puffers hunt their food, and like to hunt for snails and slaters etc. It's good to hide the snails around so they can find them.

As a rule, feed fish smaller than 3cm every day, between 3cm and 7cm, 6 days but miss every 7th, and over 7cm every 2 - 3 days. Make sure you take out anything they don't eat. I've found it best to use a net that the sand can fall through but left over food can't. I just run net over the top layer of the substrate after I feed them.

Water conditions

Puffers don't have gill coverings, can cannot handle any amounts of ammonia or nitrite. Nitrates should be kept under 10ppm. It is pretty easy to tell if GSPs are unhappy; their stomach will be pure white when they are happy, and will become motley grey when tired, grumpy, hunting food, kept in a too small tank, or don't have good water conditions. They need a pH of about 8 - 8.3.

Because they can't handle anything but the best conditions, the tank they're put in must be fully cycled.

Other Info

Puffing:

It's not good for puffers to puff; often they can't unpuff, and end up floating upside down and starve to death. Never try to make your puffer puff. They also can't be taken out of the water, so to move it, catch it in a bag or container. If he does, and doesn't unpuff in a few minutes, then hold it gently by it's tail with its mouth up, and shake it slowly to get the air out.

Here's a vid of a puffed puffer - not mine

'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QKSXQjdHDY

Jumping

Puffers can jump out of the water, so make sure you keep a lid on their tank or you may find a dead puff on the floor.

My tank

Here's a pic of their new tank that they moved into today:

You'll notice they have lots of swimming room, but also places to hide. The tank currently has no substrate in it, but I may put some sand in depending on how they cope without the sand. They used to make holes in the sand to sleep in, so if they look unhappy without it, I'll put the sand back in. I'm in the process of training them to swim through rings

The tank is about 150L and has a 100L sump.

1000lph return pump.

Filtration is 20 kg of live rock.

There are two powerheads in there, each about 4500lph, but I'm only using 1 right now.

Current lighting 1 x T8 bulb, but my new lights are 2 sets of 4 x 39W T5's, and I will be attempting to grow corals.

Tank mates: 1 damsel, Zippy, and 20 turbo snails (which they haven't eaten yet!)

Here's a pic of Zippy:

If he proves to be a problem, I'll move him to my sump or rehome him. He's nice and bright, and is much faster then the puffs, so I don't think he'll be a problem, but I am aware that the situation may change as he gets bigger.

I'm happy to help if you have any questions about puffers, I've done so much research that I know lots about all different kinds of puffers. They're really great pets that are very intelligent and are truly like puppies. They curl up to sleep with their tail wrapped round them, and will come to greet you at the front of the tank. They don't like surprises, so don't keep them near a door that opens or closes often. You'll know they're happy if they zoom around the tank like a ball with a tail, with bright eyes and a round, white tummy.

If you've kept a puffer, feel free to add any information you have to this thread. It will make a good resource for people who are interested in them.

[lmsmith]

Here are the types of puffers we get easily in NZ. I say easily, but it can be quite a struggle to get them sometimes. There may be more, but those are the ones I've seen in the last couple of years.

Freshwater puffers:

Dwarf/blue eyed puffer Carinotetraodon travancoricus

Brazilian/South american puffer Colomesus asellus

Brackish puffers:

Figure 8 puffer Tetraodon biocellatus

Green spotted puffer Tetraodon nigroviridis

Marine puffers:

Stars & Stripes Puffer Arothron hispidus

Dogface Puffer Arothron nigropunctatus

Valentini Puffer Canthigaster valentini

[phoenix44]

OH WOW/ that's awesome.

didnt realise you had already made the conversion to marine already~! :bounce:

[lmsmith]

Great post, congrats! :-)

Juss wondering, it says 100L per Puffer, and yur tanks only 150L and you have 2? Are you going to upgrade again soon?

Also, I have been concerned on this:

"the GSP will get up to 6" and is extremely aggressive as an adult. Some other possible tankmates could be mollies, scats, monos, archerfish, and bumblebee gobies. However, it is not uncommon for a puffer to get along with one of these tankmates for many months and then as soon as a sign of weakness shows or space becomes crowded, the puffer will eat the other fish. The best setup for them is species only, with either only one specimen or a large tank with several GSPs"

Also, Damsels can get very aggressive too, and wouldnt be good for the Puffers. You could find a Puffer dead overnight wif one of those.

Was also told that some Anemones\Corals\Mushrooms can be very bad for Puffers, and if they arent, they will destroy them and eat them anyways. (especially if they have tentacles or 'sway' in the current, as this attracts the Puffers to them)

Also, if one dies in yur tank (for watever reason) then its possible that the rest of yur fish will die, and so will any Anemone\Corals\Mushrooms etc because they can be toxic.

Thanks Mystic

There are two problems with tank size; first is that fish release hormones which can inhibit their growth if kept in tanks too small. So people who keep fish in tanks too small can have them stunted because they're being chemically inhibited from growing. Apparently, even a small time in a tank too small can have a bad result; so that's one more reason to do frequent, large water changes in quarantine tanks.

The second problem is aggression; puffers need to be able to get out of the line of sight of other puffers. Once they can't see each other, they forget and get happy again. So to combat this, I have lots of hidey holes for the fish and most places in the tank they'll be out of the line of sight of other fish.

150L will be fine for them at the moment because they're still pretty small and can get out of the line of sight of each other. Of course, the sump helps to cut down on the level of hormones in the water, and also a larger system is easier to keep stable. But you're right, eventually, they will have to move to a bigger tank if they start getting aggressive. I'm planning an upgrade to a 500L DT with a 200L sump in the next year or 18 months. However, because they grow so slowly, I don't foresee any issues in the near future.

Zippy is the only problem I can see being a big issue. As I said, I have a space in my sump to move him to if there are any problems, and he can live there for a few days until I can rehome him. I probably would end up setting up another tank for him if he does become a problem, because I've fallen in love with him.

In terms of corals, there won't be any anemones anytime soon, and I'll stick to leathers and other things that I can be pretty sure the puffs won't eat. I've spoken to lots of people who have kept corals with puffers, so will be drawing on them for advice for what particular things I can put with them. My puffs don't tend to go around biting things though, so maybe they'll be ok.

I know puffers are toxic, but obviously, they'll have to die or puff up for that to be a problem. A bigger system is the only real way to reduce that problem, as well as keeping a close eye on the tank. I don't like planning for that, I don't think I could bear it if my babies died!

OH WOW/ that's awesome.

didnt realise you had already made the conversion to marine already~! :bounce:

I know, it was a scary move. It's pretty low range marine right now (1.021) but I'll probably increase it slowly to 1.024 as they get bigger and if I get demanding corals that can survive vicious puffer teeth!

[livingart]

i keep 2, 3 and 4 inch puffers in my quite salty brackish tank with other species of mono, archerfish and ruby scats with no trouble so far, 2 yrs +

lost another one 5 months ago, lump of coral fell on it, found it after 3 days dead and starting to go off, no problems with other fish

just my experiences

[lmsmith]

Aw, sorry for your loss LA. They've got so much personality I imagine it's like loosing a pet dog or something

On the plus side, they can live for over 10 years, so hopefully I won't have to face that anytime soon.

[fishbreeder]

WOW

they are cool, ive always loves puffers, never knew you could keep them in a tank. let alone get freshwater ones.

can i keep one by itself? will it get lonely? what makes good tank mates that it WONT eat?

where do i get a freshwater puffer and how much do they normally eat?

you said to feed mussels? can i just get some from pak n save and feed them out?

thanks heaps

:bounce: :bounce:

[fishbreeder]

looking looking at google, didnt realise dwarfs were so little! how cute!

[lmsmith]

WOW

they are cool, ive always loves puffers, never knew you could keep them in a tank. let alone get freshwater ones.

can i keep one by itself? will it get lonely? what makes good tank mates that it WONT eat?

Yup, most people keep them alone. Dwarfs can be kept in pairs or 3s. If you're keeping them together, keep 2 females (or even 3) to every male as the males can get pretty aggressive. Some people keep them with tank mates, but you're probably best getting a small tank (maybe 70 litres) with 2 girls and a boy in there. Maybe you'll get them to breed for you!

where do i get a freshwater puffer and how much do they normally eat?

Most pet shops should be able to get them in for you, just ask. Dwarfs are tiny (about 2cm when fully grown) so only eat a tiny bit!

you said to feed mussels? can i just get some from pak n save and feed them out?

thanks heaps

:bounce: :bounce:

Yup, I just buy a mussel from the supermarket, cut it in half and put it in the tank. The other half goes in the fridge for the next day. The two puffs can clean it out in about 5 min, but dwarfs would only eat about 1/4 of a 1/2, so you should chop it up and freeze it.

Puffers are awesome little fish, glad to see you're enthusiastic about them too!

[lmsmith]

Dwarf Puffers

General Stats

Temp: 25 - 27 deg

pH: 7 - 7.8

Tank size: 20L per puff, 15L for each extra.

Max sizeL 2.5cm

Origins: India

Completely FW puffer.

Readily breed, so some take non-live food. Because they are usually not wild caught, most don't have IP.

Feeding

Snails, shrimp, mussels, all those delicious things, except in smaller quantities. According to a few people I know who have kept them, apparently their teeth growing isn't such a big issue for dwarf puffers. They're tiny though, so they need to be given foods they can eat.

Breeding

Males have a dark line on their tummy. They usually spawn under plants (maybe java moss would be something to try) and the male looks after the eggs and fry. They're tiny when they're born, so need tiny food (green water, freshly hatched BS).

The rest of the info is pretty similar to GSPs. Pretty commonly available in NZ. Dixon used to have some, he's got a thread about it somewhere on here. EDIT - found it: http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=35866

[Dixon1990]

The rest of the info is pretty similar to GSPs. Pretty commonly available in NZ. Dixion used to have some, he's got a thread about it somewhere on here.

Dixon*

I still do,they are getting a bit skinny cause i dont have enough time to waterchange and nolonger have livefood , still waiting for cichlid7 to reply to me. Hes bought them but not picked up yet.

[Dixon1990]

Also, im not so sure that dwarf puffers are very common?

[lmsmith]

Oops, sorry Dixon. My proof reading didn't happen. Have you got them feeding flakes or pellets or something? How about brine shrimp, I just learned how to hatch them, so that's what all my fish are eating right now!

When I say common, I mean common for puffers, so seeing them once or twice a year is expected. I guess that's really not common at all, is it? I'm just so used to never ever seeing some puffs. I had to wait for ages after asking like 6 stores about them.

I've got an empty tank, was thinking I might get some dwarfs and see if I can get them to make babies for me. Were yours expensive?

[Dixon1990]

mine were 14 each

sold them for a fair bit less than that

But thats fair i guess, considering they could do with some conditioning.

No, im feeding bloodworms and snails :-?

I could never get the brineshirmp thing right :lol:

I tend o see figure 8s and greenspots all the time, and only dwarfs once.

[lmsmith]

Funny how it is, huh, I wanted GSPs, saw them once in 3 years here and I bought them, but saw dwarfs all the time. Now I'm thinking about getting dwarfs, I can't find any!

Have you tried some mussels or something with them? They'll probably make a big mess, but it's pretty dense and nutrient rich compared to bloodworms, so maybe will help fatten them up.

[fishbreeder]

how do i make brackish water? the figure eights look so cool!

[lmsmith]

how do i make brackish water? the figure eights look so cool!

Add salt. Marine salt, not freshwater salt. Or, you can use sea water from the beach and add normal water to it to dilute it. You will need a refractometer (about $80) to measure salinity, because it can be quite tricky to get a consistent salinity without one.

Figure 8's only need about 1.005 - 1.010 SG, so that's not much salt but makes them MUCH happier and live lots longer. They live about 5 - 8 years if they're in good conditions.

[fishbreeder]

are they really like little puppies?

[lmsmith]

are they really like little puppies?

Yup. They curl up to sleep, and the shake when they wake up (roll from side to side). They rush to the front of the tank to greet me when I get home, and they like to play with their ball - they swim it up the side of the tank into the current then chase it. They also play hide and seek - one will sit with his head in the rock, the other will hide (usually a really stupid place) then the other will rush out and find him; headbutt him and the other will go hide. They play that lots, but sometimes they get distracted or forget, and will just buzz around doing their thing.

I never believed they were so interactive or intelligent before I got them, but after watching them for about a week, I started seeing them doing all these silly things.

[fishbreeder]

thats so awesome. how big are they now? i read the get to 6 inches? is that right? can you handfeed them mealworms?

[lmsmith]

Big puff is about 3 inches and little puff is about 2.5. They will handfeed, but they've bitten me a few times so I tend to use tongs. They do like mealworms, but I drowned mine on accident so they mostly have live slaters. They make a big mess with mealworms!!!

[fishbreeder]

sorry excuse me being dense here....but i thought slaters didnt live under water?

[lmsmith]

sorry excuse me being dense here....but i thought slaters didnt live under water?

Slaters don't live underwater. Neither do mealworms, as I found out when I left mine in the rain on accident.

Slaters are good for puffers cuz they survive for hours underwater, so you can hide them and they hunt for them.

[fishbreeder]

how easy is it to maintain a brackish tank? do i need a sump etc like you do for a fullon marine tank? can i have plants with them? do i need "real" rocks or can i make rocks?

[lmsmith]

You don't need a sump for a marine tank. When my tank was brackish I just had a canister filter and kept it clean by rinsing it out every month so the nitrates didn't build up. You can have some plants, but most don't do very well in brackish water, unless you get specific brackish plants. I just bought some fake ones cuz it was easier than scooping melting leaves out every week.

I can't really see any reason why you couldn't run it with live rock (dead coral - it's really porous so the bacteria live in it) but you might be best asking someone with more experience cuz I don't want to give you the wrong advice. If you're not using live rock, you could make your own rocks. Just make sure whatever it's made out of it can withstand puffer nips; some like biting everything to see what it feels like.