Phillip Thomson Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 hi ppl help needed urgently,have a 200ltr community tank, over the a period of 3 to 4 months my neons have gone into hiding also zeb danios, bloodfins, rummy noses mature pair bristlenose plecos and a few other smaller types. thought it might of been to do with aggresive fish ie red tail shark and algae eaters (large) even pair of large swords have been removed but there has been no improvement with them coming forward they just hide amongst twisted vall by filter outlet and heater. then started losing fish like my dwarf gouramis, royal whiptail also my buterfly ram was swimming happily one afternoon then by next day was on top of water suface struggling to breathe and uninterseted in any form of foods. we do regular water changes and also filter cleaned monthly. also had water tested was ok and water is perfect as is rain water not town supply. plants are thriving well no discolouration and wood in tank is also clean and looking fine. temp run at about 78 - 80. are feed a good variety of foods as well as frozens and live foods. the harliquins are about year old and are starting to lose their colour also. would salt help and what quantities do i use for this size tank. tank looks empty when veiwing and i know it ain't cos i spent hundreds on fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 is there enough oxygen in the tank? what is the water flow like, and what sort of filtration do you have in the tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Thomson Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 filtration is a aqua one cannister 1200 and taps are open on full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix44 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 how many of each fish do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Thomson Posted February 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 about 12 neons, 4 zebs, 4 rummy nose, 4 glass blood fins, 2 red honey gourami, 2 golden honey gourami, 4 harlquins, 1 male red dwarf gourami, 1 cobalt blue gourami (partner died thursaday), pair of bristlenose plecos, 2 pristella tetra, 4 silver spot tetra, 1 blue female ram (partner died Y/day), 6 assrted khuli loach, 3 black wodows, 4 pairs of variuos of corydoras. 2 myers hillstream loaches, 1 lancelot whip 1 rhino whip, 1 black tail whip. and 1 horse face algae eater, 1 black line flying fox, 1 pair snow coral platties. yet u look in tanka and u wouldn't think so due to hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 That is a lot of fish for that tank! What was the water tested for and what were the exact results? pH, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia in particular. Have you got a photo of the tank? That sometimes helps as we may see something. The fish you have lost so far are more sensitive to poor, or incorrect, water conditions. How do you clean the filter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Thomson Posted February 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 can't remember what test results were, but had tank tested for all those and was told all at correct levels. filter is cleaned in kitchen sink with water that is clean and same as what is in fish tank ie rainwater. will try and get a photo up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caryl Posted February 28, 2009 Report Share Posted February 28, 2009 But how do you clean the filter (and what sort is it?)? I am wondering if you are wiping out most of the colonised good bacteria in the filter so the tank keeps going through a mini cycle each time. Canister filters should have the sponges lightly rinsed in old tank water, although I imagine your tap water supply is fine there, a similar temperature to the tank. I give alternate baskets of noodles a quick rinse so not all are changed at once and rotate their order as I replace them so all noodle baskets slowly rotate through the filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted March 2, 2009 Report Share Posted March 2, 2009 Too many fish, too little maintenance, too bad. You need to reduce the number of fish in there (sounds like it will take care of itself), buy some testkits and use them, and ensure you are cleaning the filter properly (without harming the bacteria). Make sure you are not overfeeding the tank, and you need to be doing at least 20% water changes per week given the number of fish you have in there. Here's a tip - if you aren't willing to drink the tank water yourself, it isn't clean enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Thomson Posted March 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 too many fish i don't think so. sorry to differ but according to dr axelrod and dr schultz rule of thumb is that you can house one inch of fish exclusive of the tail per gallon of water without aeration or filtering. the inch of fish rule is based on fish of average proportions and activity. a full grown platy, by this rule, might measure one inch fro mouth to base of tail and ten such fish in a ten gallon tank is a safe top figure to start with. so u telling me i got too many fish i don't think so and plus my hubby is not an amatuer at this hobby, just that we have gone thru a bad patch and was wondering why neon tetras would hide out of sight since they are a mid swimmer in a tank. we have removed our pair of bristlenoses as male was becoming a digger and damaging plants. and as for the water water changes are done weekly at about 20% and yes i would drink their water if i was desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon1990 Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 200= about 52Gallon? Meaning you can keep about 52 inches of fish in your tank(not the best rule either) 12 neons - about 12Inches, 4 zebs - about 5-6Inches 4 rummy nose -about 6Inches, 4 glass blood fins- about 4Inches 2 red honey gourami - about 4Inches, 2 golden honey gourami, about 4 Inches 4 harlquins,about 4Inches, 1 male red dwarf gourami about 2 Inches 1 cobalt blue gourami about 2 Inches, , pair of bristlenose plecos about 8-10 Inches Already thats about 50-55Inches and theres still a good aleast 50Inches worth of fish below :-? SO even though the rule you are going by isnt the greatest, you are still going way over the 'limit' , 2 pristella tetra, 4 silver spot tetra, 1 blue female ram (partner died Y/day), 6 assrted khuli loach, 3 black wodows, 4 pairs of variuos of corydoras. 2 myers hillstream loaches, 1 lancelot whip 1 rhino whip, 1 black tail whip. and 1 horse face algae eater, 1 black line flying fox, 1 pair snow coral platties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jude Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 That does look like a lot of fish for that sized tank. I'd recommend plenty of water changes, reduced feeding and careful filter maintenance - as others have said, be careful not to wipe out all the good bacteria when you clean it. In the past I've found that unwell fish often lurk around in the background and hide. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 too many fish i don't think so. sorry to differ but according to dr axelrod and dr schultz rule of thumb is that you can house one inch of fish exclusive of the tail per gallon of water without aeration or filtering. the inch of fish rule is based on fish of average proportions and activity. a full grown platy, by this rule, might measure one inch fro mouth to base of tail and ten such fish in a ten gallon tank is a safe top figure to start with. so u telling me i got too many fish i don't think so and plus my hubby is not an amatuer at this hobby, just that we have gone thru a bad patch and was wondering why neon tetras would hide out of sight since they are a mid swimmer in a tank. we have removed our pair of bristlenoses as male was becoming a digger and damaging plants. and as for the water water changes are done weekly at about 20% and yes i would drink their water if i was desperate. Go and look at your tank. I'm afraid the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paekakboyz Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 As Dixon pointed out you are sailing pretty close to the wind with stocking levels. In addition there are a wide array of fish in your tank with quite different preferences for water temp etc - It would only take a small change in conditions (knocking off too much bacteria during a clean of the filter etc) to upset things... Always sucks losing fish but water conditions are the key - increasing the size and frequency of the water changes would be top of the list but re-evaluating the stocking levels should come a close second. Don't take the advice so far as an attack on your fish knowledge or experience, there are plenty of people on this site who have been into fish for ages and are still learning... new situations always crop up and people around here are great at helping out. good luck and let us know how things pan out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simian Posted March 3, 2009 Report Share Posted March 3, 2009 My advice would be similar to the others, reduce your numbers. I had a similar hodge podge mix of fish in my community tank, for best visual results apply the following rule. Less variety greater numbers. Your tetras & rasboras will school with same or similar types, they will be your mid level fish, I'd suggest enhance your Neons school with Cardinals (they are dearer but live much longer). Choose either one of the other tetras such as Rummies or the rasboras and do the same, sell or swap the remainder of mid level fish for them if you can. Keep the gouramis for your high level surface fish, again decide which ones you like best and try and keep to one type. Next step is bottom dwellers or cleanup crew. 8 cories will be a sweet group, 3 loaches (be aware the pakastani's will get pretty big, I have gone for Zebras myself) for snail control, some small bristle nose (once they get too big they start damaging plants IMO) and your whips. Still a well stocked tank but wayyyy more manageable and much less chaotic and visually appealing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whetu Posted March 4, 2009 Report Share Posted March 4, 2009 Phillip Thomson (and co?) even if you don't agree with some of the analysis here (for example you don't agree with the idea that your tank may be overstocked), the basic remedy is likely to be the same: 1) Increase aeration - either lower the water level or redirect the spray bar on your filter to increase the level of surface agitation 2) Do frequent water changes 3) Keep your filter well maintained but take care not to over-clean 4) Be careful not to over-feed It sounds from your description that your fish are not suffering from any specific disease, so there will be no advantage in medicating them. By far the most likely problem is a water quality issue. The guidelines above will help to dilute any toxins and promote good water quality. Without knowing the specific test results, any other diagnosis would only be speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phillip Thomson Posted March 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 thnak you all for your advice and help much appreciated. we found our problem, it involved the white spot tetras (x4). i was reading on a fish page on web and found that they can be semi aggresive so have removed them and guess what types that were hiding are now back out swimming freely around tank, is nice to see them all out again. these white spot tetras area also known as ,Dawn Tetra, White Spot Tetra, Rio Paraguay Tetra, Panda Tetra well thats what we are putting it down anyways thanks all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tHEcONCH Posted March 9, 2009 Report Share Posted March 9, 2009 So reducing your stocking levels helped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave+Amy Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 too many fish i don't think so. sorry to differ but according to dr axelrod and dr schultz rule of thumb is that you can house one inch of fish exclusive of the tail per gallon of water without aeration or filtering. yeah but how often the waterchange?? How's your tank now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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