chimera Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 Howdy, Im still working out the appropriate Iwaki to use :oops: Essentially I need 850gph at the head of the sea-swirl (that’s its maximum rating) The head height is about 10 feet (a little over 3 metres) The pump I currently have is an Iwaki MD-40RXT. According to the diagram in the PDF (http://www.marineandreef.com/shoppro/CA_Iwaki_Pump.html - it's the MD model, not WMD) the 40RX(T) flows at 840gph at 10 feet head which you would think is spot on – however this figure doesn’t account for pipe friction or bends etc. The 55RT model flows at the same (if not less) at the same height. So, in theory I need to go to the 70RT. However, this (according to the diagram on the same site) does approximately 1,200gph (20gpm) which is 350gph more than the sea swirl can handle. The pipe going upstairs starts as flexible bilge piping (which I think may cause some problems being flexible loses flowrate) then through 2 x 45 degree bends (to get around a floor joist) then upstairs into 3 x 90 degree bends (1 x 90 degree heading horizontal across the top of the sea swirl, 1 x 90 degree bend down into the sea swirl then 1 x 90 degree bend out of the sea swirl into the tank. I dont know if the 850gph maximum rating is at entry of exit from seaswirl) The pipe is all 3/4†(20mm) Question is, will the above friction and bends etc pull the flow rate back enough to the 850gph maximum rating? Personally I think 850gph is an approximate figure they give out and probably a conservative estimate so I would imagine it would really be capable of closer to 1,000gph. Do you think the 70RX(T) is too much for this setup? If so, any alternatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 go for the bigger one, you can always add another valve and have it partially closed to restrict the flow if you need to. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I think there's a head calculator on reefcentral somewhere that calculates the total head with bends and the length of pipe. But, I'd say if anything the ratings would be optimistic, most are... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desh Posted September 14, 2004 Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 I won't say I told you so...........no I will. Use the MD70 given that your plumbing is good enough that should do the job. Also remember that your piping will also have losses in them you might be looking at RT70 or a RT100 for the flow rates you would want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 he hee heeee, i was waiting for that post desh however, here is the reply from Ed @ Aquarium Currents (who make the sea-swirl) James....Thanks for purchasing our product! I'm alittle confused by the model of the pump. There's an Iwaki 40RLT which is a pressure rated pump that flows 750GPH @ 4 feet of head with a Maximum head of 21 feet and uses 3/4'' plumbing DIRECTLY off the pump itself(so I'm going to assume you have this pump) AND a 40 RLXT which flows 1200 GPH @ 4 feet of head with Maximum head of 15 feet and flows through 1'' plumbing DIRECTLY off the pump itself. If it's this pump you must have reduced down from 1'' to 3/4'' ???? If your pumping up 10 feet with a 40 RLT your flow at the outlet will only be about 500 GPH or even alittle less. So I would get the black 3/4'' x 1/2'' reducer bushing(our part # 520) and the 1/2'' MPT connector(our part # 200) and the 1/2'' round nozzle(our part # 205). If your pumping up with an Iwaki 40 RL(X)T then you should have about 750 GPH at the outlet which should give you more than a ''dribble''. Elbows and bends do take volume off the pump but in reality I only figure about 1 to 2% for each 90. LET ME KNOW for sure the correct model you have!!!!!! If you do want to upgrade I would go with an Iwaki 55 RLT again a pressure rated pump that is 1080GPH @ 4 feet with a Maximum head of 27 feet!!!! The 70 Iwaki would definately be too much. Regarding the drain down hole.....You would drill an 1/8'' or alittle larger hole right UNDER THE RUNNING WATERLINE of the aquarium into the black outlet elbow and all the way through to the inner pipe(if you need to go that high otherwise it would be ONLY through the black outlet 90.) You want the hole just under the waterline because if it's above you will have splash and create alot of spray and salt creep onto the tank and/or lighting system as that little hole will act as a small outlet. HTH .....Ed... Again, LMK the correct pump 40 RLT...3/4'' directly off the pump itself(750 gph) or RLXT...1'' directly off the pump(1200gph). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2004 and here is my reply to the above: Hi Ed, Thanks for the quick reply. The model has MD-40RX(T) stamped on it. I think this is the same as an MD-40RLX(T) as its the "high head and high flow model" (they just dont show the 'L' for some reason - and some of their web pages ommit the 'L' too) Anyways, this theoretically (at 10ft head height) has roughly the same flow rate as an Iwaki 55-RLT. Yes, it does have a 1" to 3/4" reducer on it. Here is a pic of the sump/pump setup (although the sump has baffles now!) to show you what it looks like: http://www.chimera.co.nz/tropicalfish/m ... umbed2.jpg I cant work out why the pressure coming out the Sea-swirl is so crap. It certainly isnt a 'jet' of water coming out, more like a tap only just 'on'. If I put my hand about 3 or 4 inches in front of it, I can barely feel the water coming out. Maybe a faulty pump??? Cheers, James will post his response when i get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2004 interesting, ed's reply... James.....O.K. ....If we think the pump is indeed a 40 RLXT with a flow rate of 1200GPH @ 4feet, but since this pump is a circulation pump ONLY( NOT pressure rated and definately not high head, but yes, it is high flow!) with a MAXIMUM head of ONLY 15 feet(compared to 21 feet on the 40RLT) your flow @ 10 feet would indeed be not very strong, especially since the pump was reduced down to 3/4'' this actually will give you even less flow. There's no way in H*** that a 40RLXT @ 10 feet of head(even WITH 1'' return line!) will have the same flow as the 55RLT!!!!!! If the pump has 1'' off the outlet you should always use that size for the return line(unless the pump IS pressure rated!) If you believe the pump may be faulty try bringing the line down to sump level and just run some water through the pump/return line AT THAT LEVEL into the sump and I bet it's alot stronger even with the 3/4'' hose. IMHO, you should either change the return line to 1'' and see if this helps the flow(it should) or get the 55RLT pump(but this pump too is 1'' in and out, but it really won't mind being restricted with 3/4'' hose because it's a PRESSURE rated pump, and will still flow alot of water compared to the 40 RLXT.) LMK how you make out. ...HTH ....Ed What's everyone else thoughts on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Spoke to DLM Wallace pumps in NZL (sole nz agent) and they reckon an Iwaki MD-55R5 is the one for me. Brand new, list price at $1,216 (ouch), said would do 15% discount, or $1,033 (still ouch) He reckons they are awesome 24x7 pumps, highly reliable (magnetic driven) and very durable (designed to handle highly corrosive fluids) Not keen on spending this much - but I dont have much option unless someone else has one? Being brand new comes with 1 year warranty at least! Tempting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 Maybe two pumps in a series or something like a reefflo dart or the next step up. It's a high flow not high pressure pump, but they've got some serious flow and would be about half that price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 17, 2004 Report Share Posted September 17, 2004 has anyone seriously investigatedthe pumps they use to drain sewage and waste water? high flow rates and anti corrsive material, the thing i could think would impede them is the 24/7 issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 19, 2004 Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 People use Iwaki pumps because they work. There are lots of cheap options out there, but the longer you look, the more Iwakis are in use. It gets to a point where you find people that brought brands x or y and where more than happy with it, until it stoped working after 2-3 years. Remeber this is the key, the pump needs to run ALWAYS. If you buy Iwaki (or Grunfos) you know its going to keep going, there are thousands of them out there on reef aquairums and no-one seems to have anything negitive to say, other than they are expensive. Whats the most important part of your reef system? For me (and Chimera, and most others) with external sumps, its the return pump. It stops and my water is no longer heated (or cooled), not skimmed or anything else happens to it. To reduce head pressure by waterflow/friction you can use wider piping, say 40mm which will drasticlly improve water flow. I am in the market for a bit Iwaki, and have been for a while. Anyone with a 70 or 100 for sale should get in touch, I am good for the money. Cheers Pies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 19, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2004 pies you legend, you always come through with a good positive reasons for and against posts. stupidly, the actual function of a sump (such as maintaining temperature) slipped my mind to be perfectly honest and since thats where the heat is generated, it makes sense reliability is key (i was so focused on water flow for the return) - especially those weekends you want to go away but worry all weekend that something will fail. as you say, iwaki are the bomb and there are little complaints against them. phuck the new kitchen,... it can wait FYI, here's a link to the tech doc (PDF) on Iwaki's I was sent by dlm wallace pumps: http://www.chimera.co.nz/tropicalfish/misc/md2002.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2004 I am ordering an Iwaki 55RLT from Marine Depot in the USA. They come in about $350 cheaper (NZL dollars) than if I were to purchase here even AFTER shipping costs, NZL GST etc etc. And yes, that is the 240V version. Just have to wait a 4 weeks for it to arrive though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 bastard,... they sent the 115V version... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RnB Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 whats the wattage i will get you a quote for a transformer..... I use a transfermer on a large treadmill, no issues...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 I tried to use a step-down transformer on for one of my pumps when I first got here. For my situation, the damn thing cost hundreds of $$ and ran REALLY hot after a while. I would certainly try to get the appropriate voltage pump before going the transformer route. IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 1/9HP - so about 83 watts. I would rather send this one back and get a 240V model. Here is his response to my email: Thanks for the quick response. That is perfectly fine if you do not want to use this pump. Unfortunately we will be unable to send you a return label. Please send the pump back to us, along with a copy of the shipping expenses to you. Once we have received the pump back from you, we will refund you the full amount back spent on return shipping. I apologize once again for the inconvenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianemone Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 "do not want to use"?????? more like, can not use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted September 28, 2004 Report Share Posted September 28, 2004 hey at least they are prepaired to replace the pump and refund the shipping im sure it would be alot worse if they said well your in new zealand and were in america so what are you going to do about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I thought that might have happened - pity about the wrong pump being sent, a hassle and a risk you take with mail order but yeah, at least they will refund the shipping. It costs USD$25 more to send it BACK from NZL to USA! Fedex require the replacement pump to say "REPLACEMENT" with the original tracking number along side so that I dont have to pay GST again!!! Oh well, another 4 - 6 weeks wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_from_nz Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 slight tangent here but i know of a blind company i use to work for that stuffed up the blinds for someones house 4 times (at two weeks manafacturing time each error) these people had to get changed for 8 weeks hoping no one was peering into their windows. Hope you don't have a similar thing happen to you chim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 I was VERY precise in my last email to them!!! I even included a copy of the email correspondance that went back and forth, an original copy of the shipping invoice so they can reimburse me, a copy of all their original shipping doc's and a reminder to put "REPLACEMENT" and the original tracking number when the correct pump is shipped back out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holiday Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 Sorry to hear about the muck up in your order Chimera! I was wondering wether or not they had sent you the wrong pump when it arrived so soon. The 240v models they have to bring in from Japan and that usually takes 4-6 weeks and then another couple weeks to get it to you. I feel bad that you have had these hassles with your order since I refered you to them, but they are highley regarded as one of the best stores in America, so I'm sure they will do thier best to sort it out for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBlog Posted September 29, 2004 Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 When I special ordered a 240V pump from Marine Depot, I complained a bit about the extra time and they had it shipped directly from the manufacturer to me. That saved heaps of time. I ordered a different make of pump, but this may still be an option. If you are anything like me, sooner is definitely better even if it is by just a week or so! I would say that you would certainly have some leverage as well since they already stuffed up your order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 29, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2004 have emailed them and asked. thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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